Universal credit: Should the temporary increase be kept for longer?

[the snail]

But the VAT threshold is on turnover, not profit

As mudsticks suggested, you can register for VAT even if your turnover is under the threshold.

 

[mudsticks]

As mudsticks suggested, you can register for VAT even if your turnover is under the threshold.

And now, for some more fascinating -
if irrelevant to the thread - accounting facts .

To reflect their unpredictable incomes.
farmers and 'creators of artistic works" can claim 'averaging' from year to year when it comes to income tax,

In order that the tax bill be spread out more evenly.

For some perculiar reason, I quite like that only those two occupations inhabit that special category together.

 

[Rusty Nails]

You're right, if you're turning over 50k growing veg I'd like to think there's a fair amount of profit in it!

If I was growing veg in my back garden 50k would yield a lot of profit.

I don't know but imagine @mudsticks' costs are a little bit more than just "growing veg" unless she does everything herself. If I remember, for example, a pub works on profits at just over 30% of turnover. Not the same thing as farming, I know, but I have no idea of the comparison for farming.

 

[Rusty Nails]

And now, for some more fascinating -
if irrelevant to the thread - accounting facts .

To reflect their unpredictable incomes.
farmers and 'creators of artistic works" can claim 'averaging' from year to year when it comes to income tax,

In order that the tax bill be spread out more evenly.

For some perculiar reason, I quite like that only those two occupations inhabit that special category together.

They've seen your vegetable pics.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I don't know but imagine @mudsticks' costs are a little bit more than just "growing veg" unless she does everything herself. If I remember, for example, a pub works on profits at just over 30% of turnover. Not the same thing as farming, I know, but I have no idea of the comparison for farming.

Lawyers, whether solicitors or at The Bar, reckon to see about one third of billed fees as income.

 

[mudsticks]

If I was growing veg in my back garden 50k would yield a lot of profit.

I don't know but imagine @mudsticks' costs are a little bit more than just "growing veg" unless she does everything herself. If I remember, for example, a pub works on profits at just over 30% of turnover. Not the same thing as farming, I know, but I have no idea of the comparison for farming.

Margin (for me) hovers at about 30% yes.

Staffing the biggest chunk of costs, followed by other variables such as energy, mach repairs and other inputs like seeds and substrate.

But not sure what this has to do with taking £20 away from those on the lowest incomes.

Fwiw I donate surpluses to anyone who can use them, and have a 'pay less if you need to' option for customers of both my businesses.

But peoples fresh food needs being met shouldn't be reliant on random charity, from random farmers.

Most food banks can't deal with perishables for obvious reasons.

The existence of food banks should be a source of shame for this country.

 

[Archie_tect]

But the VAT threshold is on turnover, not profit

Turnover for a sole trader is usually split into 1/3rd staff costs, 1/3rd overheads and 1/3rd profit.Large capital investment purchases can cut into the profit margins which are offset against annual capital allowances but it's entirely possible that someone could be just breaking even each year and be on UC if they rent or are buying the land on which they farm. Making a profit takes careful management and EU grants played a big part in making farming viable. Without the help of EU seasonal workers some farms can't manage because students and local residents tend not to help bring in harvests anymore.

 

[steve292]

The existence of food banks should be a source of shame for this country.

Never a truer word. 5th richest country in the world my arse.

 

[mudsticks]

Turnover for a sole trader is usually split into 1/3rd staff costs, 1/3rd overheads and 1/3rd profit.Large capital investment purchases can cut into the profit margins which are offset against annual capital allowances but it's entirely possible that someone could be just breaking even each year and be on UC if they rent or are buying the land on which they farm. Making a profit takes careful management and EU grants played a big part in making farming viable. Without the help of EU seasonal workers some farms can't manage because students and local residents tend not to help bring in harvests anymore.

Many farmers have had their margins pushed close to or below zero.

The commodity buyers know how much area payments they were getting and pegged the price with regard to this.

Paying rent or a mortgage on a farm just with the product of that land is very tricky.

Especially with current prices.

I manage because this land was purchased with a mortgage, just before prices went stupid.

And am in an area that lends itself to direct marketing .

It's very hard to find affordable land to rent or buy, in addition to all the barriers to getting started.

There's still nutters wanting to come into the industry (hence my consultancy stint yesterday) but making pots of money definitely isn't the primary motivation.

 

[mudsticks]

Never a truer word. 5th richest country in the world my arse.

Yeah, but to be fair some people in this country are very rich.

The fact that other people in this country will insist upon spoiling it all by being poor, shouldn't take away the sense of self satisfaction from the well off ones

 

[Archie_tect]

Ah, the artisan farming world of the burnt-out London stockbroker who: buys a farmstead for cash in Devon to plant orchards to make 50 bottles of cloudy cider while encouraging some cute little piglets to snuffle for truffles, and gets free publicity via their London marketing agency chums for their half dozen boxes of organic kale and celeriac in their spotless farm shop on Countryfile.

Those nutters... call me cynical.

 

[mudsticks]

Ah, the artisan farming world of the burnt-out London stockbroker who: buys a farmstead for cash in Devon to plant orchards to make 50 bottles of cloudy cider while encouraging some cute little piglets to snuffle for truffles, and gets free publicity via htheir London marketing agency chums for their boxes organic veg in their spotless farm shop on Countryfile.

Those nutters... call me cynical.

To be fair this lot weren't like that.

I'm cordial (sic) enough to the
'tie some raffia around it and charge double'
'downsize to the country' brigade.

But I don't give them too much of my precious time, for free or paid.

This mob were the real deal, onboard with all the politics of land access, food sovereignty, and agroecology in general.

 

[newfhouse]

Never a truer word. 5th richest country in the world my arse.

Be fair, they’re doing their best to move the country to a level where such charities are more acceptable.

 

[Archie_tect]

To be fair this lot weren't like that.

I'm cordial (sic) enough to the
'tie some raffia around it and charge double'
'downsize to the country' brigade.

But I don't give them too much of my precious time, for free or paid.

This mob were the real deal, onboard with all the politics of land access, food sovereignty, and agroecology in general.

That's exactly the type of mentoring work I'd imagined you'd do... practical and hard hitting but supportive- the last thing people would want to hear is that they've thrown away their life savings for a dream. when, with hard work and commitment they can make a better world... and if UC helps them then they deserve every bit of help they can get.

I find Countryfile's squeaky cleanness a bit hard to take sometimes... the need to vent here helps!

 

[mudsticks]

That's exactly the type of mentoring work I'd imagined you'd do... practical and hard hitting but supportive- the last thing people would want to hear is that they've thrown away their life savings for a dream. when, with hard work and commitment they can make a better world... and if UC helps them then they deserve every bit of help they can get.

I find Countryfile's squeaky cleanness a bit hard to take sometimes... the need to vent here helps!

I just can't watch countryfile, with smug 'Adam I'm a farmer*' etc etc.

Occasionally mentions a bit of hardship in the countryside, but we don't want to upset the bucolic vision too much do we??

Or point out who controls land, land ownership and why??

So instead let's go over here and interview this delightful lady with her funny coloured sheep.
Isn't she nice

*No you're not, you're doing a good job of preserving heritage breeds for their genetic diversity , renting them out as extras for olde worlde telly progs, and doubtless make a fair wad from appearing on the telly on your inherited farm..

All jolly well done, but it doesn't reflect the reality of food and farming, nor 'rural life' and economies there in this country.