What is a woman?

[classic33]

You had to back 60 years to find a book that says what? That it's a female condition. It has an equivalent in males, but not everyone accepts it as an entity in it's own right. Literally the first lines of your link:

View attachment 6941

Not exactly a slam dunk. Things have moved on a bit in genetics since the year when Jim Reeves was top of the charts.

Not an attempt by me to go back as far. Just one piece of research referenced in many others.
Also the second hit when searching.

Why did you cut the right-hand side of the page off though. Wording used not to your satisfaction.

 

[monkers]

You had to back 60 years to find a book that says what? That it's a female condition. It has an equivalent in males, but not everyone accepts it as an entity in it's own right. Literally the first lines of your link:

View attachment 6941

Not exactly a slam dunk. Things have moved on a bit in genetics since the year when Jim Reeves was top of the charts.

Can Boys Have Turner Syndrome? More than a Question of Semantics​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34515231/

 

[AuroraSaab]

?? So basically there's a counterpart to Turners in males . . a mosaicism type dsd, found in males but rarely, that has similar co morbidities to Turners - shorter height, cardiac issues, infertility - that some researchers wonder if it should be regarded as Turner syndrome in males....

It's not really a convincing argument that sex is a spectrum.

 

[multitool]

Colin Wright lol.

You asked for gossip to get to know people better but honestly by now I reckon I could write your script for you.

I think we all could, couldn't we?

Register a new account (because his last few have been banned) start a few threads as cover, including the 'Help out new member' faux-naive one asking members to describe the pecadilloes of existing members (like he doesn't already know )

...meanwhile desperately trying not to blow his load all over his laptop screen as he holds back from starting a thread on his monomaniacal obsession.

Ha ha ha hahaha.....what a facile dork


(hello, by the way winj)

 

[monkers]

?? So basically there's a counterpart to Turners in males . . a mosaicism type dsd, found in males but rarely, that has similar co morbidities to Turners - shorter height, cardiac issues, infertility - that some researchers wonder if it should be regarded as Turner syndrome in males....

It's not really a convincing argument that sex is a spectrum.

I didn't notice that they said that they believe it proves sex is a spectrum, but then I just skim read it once.

 

["slow horse" aka "another sam"]

My progress has been slow on the videos of the hearings. They're not quite as pacy as The Fugitive, which I rewatched the other day, but it's always fun to root for the good guys. The pace did pick up after the history lesson, with a stinging recitation of all the ways we are witnessing the patriarchy in action. I only wish it was on YouTube for easy linking to the greatest hits: "shapeshifting patriarchy which affords men an ineffable sense of entitlement taking away from rights of women" was one such standout. Also a lot about "absurd or perverse consequences." I can almost imagine Aidan in place of Tommy Lee Jones, except he'd be saying "I do care."

Radical idea I know, but maybe let's try and create a society where people feel comfortable openly expressing and discussing their gender identity, then lesbians* can have a polite conversation with each other and be able to simply say no thank you, the way they would to any other person they're not interested in.

*and straight men. It's not just a lesbian issue.

Many have been saying "No thank you" to no avail, and politeness gets steamrollered; one of the reasons patience has been lost. You're probably aware of Sall Grover over in Australia. For those who aren't, she shut down her dating app for lesbians rather than admit non-lesbians (as men can't be lesbian by definition). She also recently lost an important court case. I'll leave any interested parties to their googling. Spoiler alert: she's magnificent.


View: https://x.com/salltweets/status/1782354798253355261

Remember that you don't have to go to X to watch the following.


View: https://x.com/salltweets/status/1827549082354905375

Parenthood is an interesting one. I see no inherent contradiction in a trans man being both a mother (person who has given birth) and a father (masculine role model who raises a child). I wish we could move to a state where trans men were comfortable identifying as mothers and didn't feel it encroached on their sense of self.

I don't mind if people think of themselves in terms of gender identities. I just don't want laws to be based on those identities, or for men to be given access to women's spaces. Hence, it's extremely important what is meant by the words man and woman.

The state I wish we could move to is the one where young women wouldn't be so uncomfortable with being women that they feel the need to bind or even remove their breasts, for a start.

Mother, father, parent, all have different meanings based on context and all can be verbs as well as nouns.

In the context of the reality we all must inhabit, those words have meanings born from biology.

Excellent! (and perfectly sums up many of the "discussions" i had in the early days of NACA ... )

That cartoon reached a large audience when Musk tweeted it, which brings us neatly to the freedom of speech that is so necessary to discuss the many issues involved. It drives some people absolutely, and I think even literally, insane when they can't shut other people up.

 

[monkers]

I just don't want laws to be based on those identities

Tough shoot because this more sophisticated thinking is the norm in the civilised world. Live with it. The law will prevail without your opinion.

Of course you started this thread because the other thread died and you needed content for one of the other places you go. You are the person that others call Sam, or the other Sam or whatever.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9QnZVpVd8

 

[matticus]

Radical idea I know, but maybe let's try and create a society where people feel comfortable openly expressing and discussing their gender identity, then lesbians* can have a polite conversation with each other and be able to simply say no thank you, the way they would to any other person they're not interested in.

I also have a niece.

*and straight men. It's not just a lesbian issue.

Hear hear!

 

[The Crofted Crest]

hello, by the way

Yo, mults! Nice to see you again.

 

[monkers]

Because chromosomes aren't in themselves sex.

You haven't stopped going on about chromosomes for about the last hundred years.

So if some people with a vagina and breasts aren't women because of their chromosomes, where is the basis of your argument?

One minute it's about gametes, then it's genitalia, then it's hormones, then it's chromosomes, then it's about if somebody's skeleton is dug up in 200 years from now, and they'd be able to tell you where the law had permitted them to piss.

I give up, this shapeshifting is mind numbing.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's about sex. Of which we all know there are only 2, and which is not determined by how you look. A man with a dsd condition that gives him ambiguous genitalia is still a man. A castrated man with surgically created breasts and a pseudo vagina is still a man.

It's you who desperately clutches at whatever straw you think will somehow prise sex away from material reality and its biological basis, thus allowing 'woman' is be no more than a feeling in a man's head.

 

[classic33]

Remember that you don't have to go to X to watch the following.

Not quite.
"Can I view X/Twitter without an account? No—you must have an account to view tweets on X. As of July 2, 2023, tweet previews will be hidden when sent to other platforms such as Discord or Messenger. If you click on a link sent to you by a friend, you'll be redirected to X's log in and sign-up page."

 

[monkers]

It's about sex. Of which we all know there are only 2, and which is not determined by how you look. A man with a dsd condition that gives him ambiguous genitalia is still a man. A castrated man with surgically created breasts and a pseudo vagina is still a man.

It's you who desperately clutches at whatever straw you think will somehow prise sex away from material reality and its biological basis, thus allowing 'woman' is be no more than a feeling in a man's head.

The ever-shifting wind of wisdom.

I'm going to go all the way back to the point when I entered the other thread.

There you were pontificating that women's hard won rights were clearly stated in the EA2010. Your world view was beyond question.

I challenged you, correctly as it turned out, because you were unable to show where the EA defined sex as 'biological sex'.

You briefly conceded the point, but about 3 minutes later had returned to type.

Since that time, we've seen FWS claim the same thing. They failed with that dogma at the Outer Court of Sessions where Lady Haldane dismissed the claim. They failed with that dogma at the Inner Court of Sessions where Lady Dorian dismissed the claim, and was actually unusually scornful towards Falkner who had claimed that only women can be ''legally lesbian'' - there being no legal basis for who can be a lesbian and who can not.

To remind this thread began on that same premise, that the law says that only biological women are women and that the matter is in the hands of the Supreme Court to decide.

Now we here the dogma justified as 'because I don't like it'.

We have to wait for the ruling of the Supreme Court. What is your prediction of their ruling?

 

[monkers]

 

[matticus]

Not quite.
"Can I view X/Twitter without an account? No—you must have an account to view tweets on X. As of July 2, 2023, tweet previews will be hidden when sent to other platforms such as Discord or Messenger. If you click on a link sent to you by a friend, you'll be redirected to X's log in and sign-up page."

{getting very off-topic, but, hah!}
This seems to change on an almost hourly basis. I've definitely clicked on google search results for Twitter and been able to directly view one page/image.