You just have to accept that you've been shafted.

[icowden]

As @icowden just proved, it seems as long as you spend everything you earn each month then someone else can pay.

Not sure how I proved that. I pay a fair amount of tax to the exchequer. Far more tax per pound earned than the truly wealthy like Sunak.

 

[Ian H]

We already do, footballers for example pay out around half their wages in tax and NI so just work that out.

Average Premier league salary £60k per week at a guess, that's some contribution.

How much would you have them paying out, 60%, 70%, 80%?

A fair tax system is progressive, so they would only be paying top rate on earnings above a certain figure.
A fair system would also not have loop-holes, but there you go.

 

[icowden]

We're here again 'the rich' the 'ultra rich' at what level do people become this?
According to one bloke having a home cinema and a multigym defines 'richness' yet a 10 million per yr footy player isn’t in your eyes?

That's not what @Beebo said. They pointed out that once you get above a certain level of wealth, your salary stops coming from PAYE and starts to come from other routes which allow you to avoid tax. Hence Sunak's tax return showing that he paid half the amount of tax to normal people as his income was pretty much all from capital gains rather than salary.

And yes, if you can afford a multimillion pound house, it's a good indication that you have a substantial income.

Of course it's all relative. If I moved to Norfolk or to one of the poorer areas of Scotland I would be substantially "richer" than living in Surrey, not least because I could buy a larger house for much less money.

The reason I have a large mortgage is to give my kids the best start in life, something I think we would all do. Ideally we would invest far more money in education as (for example) Finland does, but the fact is that we don't, and the secondaries around here are not great, especially for kids with additional needs. This has been helped with both of them achieving scholarships. A substantial number of the parents I know are not wealthy but have sacrificed as much as possible to get a good education for their children. We are in a very different gang to the ones that have multiple homes, personal staff and take 8 holidays a year.

There is also a balance to how much tax you take from the ultra rich - if you take too much they will leave the country and ensure they pay little or no tax - that's why F1 drivers all live in Monaco.

 

[Julia9054]

Knowing or caring?

Unless someone else does the shopping how can you not know?

Well obviously you know how much you spent at the moment you reach the till but if you’ve enough money you have no need to do a running total for every shop you go in throughout the week.
Not needing to budget for groceries and just buying what you feel like eating is what I mean.

 

[icowden]

A fair system would also not have loop-holes, but there you go.

It's almost as if the PM and former Chancellor, and his friends and colleagues get some sort of benefit from those loopholes...

 

[Julia9054]

Well obviously you know how much you spent at the moment you reach the till but if you’ve enough money you have no need to do a running total for every shop you go in throughout the week.
Not needing to budget for groceries and just buying what you feel like eating is what I mean.

I guess the next level up is not needing to budget for going out to eat. If you can go out whenever you can't be bothered cooking and never need to think "blimey, I can't afford to eat there!"
That's my definition of rich.

(I'm very food orientated!!)

 

[Deleted member 28]

That's not what @Beebo said. They pointed out that once you get above a certain level of wealth, your salary stops coming from PAYE and starts to come from other routes which allow you to avoid tax. Hence Sunak's tax return showing that he paid half the amount of tax to normal people as his income was pretty much all from capital gains rather than salary.

And yes, if you can afford a multimillion pound house, it's a good indication that you have a substantial income.

Of course it's all relative. If I moved to Norfolk or to one of the poorer areas of Scotland I would be substantially "richer" than living in Surrey, not least because I could buy a larger house for much less money.

The reason I have a large mortgage is to give my kids the best start in life, something I think we would all do. Ideally we would invest far more money in education as (for example) Finland does, but the fact is that we don't, and the secondaries around here are not great, especially for kids with additional needs. This has been helped with both of them achieving scholarships. A substantial number of the parents I know are not wealthy but have sacrificed as much as possible to get a good education for their children. We are in a very different gang to the ones that have multiple homes, personal staff and take 8 holidays a year.

There is also a balance to how much tax you take from the ultra rich - if you take too much they will leave the country and ensure they pay little or no tax - that's why F1 drivers all live in Monaco.

I can't help thinking that due to the choices you've made with regards your kids education (and there's nothing wrong with that) you somehow feel aggrieved that certain people don't have to.

Where would YOU draw the line, if you could afford the private education without the extra mortgage and pay all your bills but still have enough left for a couple of decent holidays whilst only paying the tax that you do would you be happier then do you think?

As for paying tax in the UK, if you don't live here for more than 40 odd days per year you don't need to pay UK taxes so why would you?

 

[qigong chimp]

There is also a balance to how much tax you take from the ultra rich - if you take too much they will leave the country and ensure they pay little or no tax - that's why F1 drivers all live in Monaco.

This one still has traction?
No representation without taxation.
People unwilling to pay their share of tax ought, as a minimum, to be excluded from the democratic process, if not stripped of their citizenship altogether.

 

[Deleted member 28]

I didn’t say that.
I said just looking at PAYE isn’t helpful.

Well, the tax paying footballers that do pay via PAYE contribute a considerable amount and I would class those fellas as pretty rich wouldn't you?

'Tax the rich' was the phrase used here don't forget so once again who exactly are you classing as 'rich'.

One person stated earlier if someone can eat out 4 or 5 times per week they're pretty rich in her eyes.

I think the problem is that many on here earn good wages (one retired fella even earns "just under the 40% bracket") if I recall yet people still resent the ones better off than themselves.

 

[multitool]

Sorry, but all this talk of taxing the rich is distracting from the REAL problems our nation faces...

...benefit scroungers and immigrants in 5* hotels.

Can we get back to that please.

 

[multitool]

There is also a balance to how much tax you take from the ultra rich - if you take too much they will leave the country and ensure they pay little or no tax - that's why F1 drivers all live in Monaco.

LOL.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Sorry, but all this talk of taxing the rich is distracting from the REAL problems our nation faces...

...benefit scroungers and immigrants in 5* hotels.

Can we get back to that please.

That was going to be my next question, how about spending what we actually do get from taxes more efficiently.

 

[Ian H]

That was going to be my next question, how about spending what we actually do get from taxes more efficiently.

In terms of value for money I'd say collecting taxes efficiently should be the priority.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/rese...s/sophisticated-tax-evasion-by-the-super-rich

 

[BoldonLad]

A fair tax system is progressive, so they would only be paying top rate on earnings above a certain figure.
A fair system would also not have loop-holes, but there you go.

There we go again, the mysterious “certain figure”

 

[Deleted member 28]

In terms of value for money I'd say collecting taxes efficiently should be the priority.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/sophisticated-tax-evasion-by-the-super-rich

I'm guessing Labour will sort this in the first 100 days if/when they get in.