3 by-elections - let’s have your comments

[Xipe Totec]

It says a lot about politics that it needs a combined effort of Labour, Lib Dems & Greens to defeat Tories.

Show country is not as anti Tory as some on here would try to have us believe

It shows that the UK has a grotesquely undemocratic, unrepresentative electoral system, which gave the Tories an 80 seat majority on 42% of the popular vote.

Sir Starver promised electoral reform, just like the war criminal before him did, and just like him, as soon as he gets a sniff of the possibility of power he wipes his greasy ar$e with that promise.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Classic British by election.

 

[Pale Rider]

Sir Starver promised electoral reform, just like the war criminal before him did, and just like him, as soon as he gets a sniff of the possibility of power he wipes his greasy ar$e with that promise.

All part of the transition from opposition to power.

Being in opposition is largely a political holiday.

All you have to do is snipe from the sidelines now and again, nothing you say can ever be put to proof, and in any event you actually say very little.

A few posters on here would make excellent opposition MPs.

However, Labour are hot favourites to win an ever closer election, so they are beginning to get just a little of the scrutiny they will get in power.

That they are buckling under this tiny amount of pressure is some encouragement to the Tories.

Unfortunately, it also indicates that if Labour gain power, they won't be so very different form what we have now.

 

[cookiemonster]

https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

I thought this may be helpful for anyone who thinks the UK is a functioning democracy.

 

[cookiemonster]

Unfortunately, it also indicates that if Labour gain power, they won't be so very different form what we have now.

Agreed. Just a little milder but the poorest in society will continue to get a kicking. Strange how 'tough fiscal rules' only ever apply to the part of society that's unable to fight back.

 

[C R]

It shows that the UK has a grotesquely undemocratic, unrepresentative electoral system, which gave the Tories an 80 seat majority on 42% of the popular vote.

I see this repeated often, but it isn't correct. In the proportional system used in Spain a 42% of the popular vote would definitely yield an absolute majority, and I suspect that would be the case in many PR systems.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I see this repeated often, but it isn't correct. In the proportional system used in Spain a 42% of the popular vote would definitely yield an absolute majority, and I suspect that would be the case in many PR systems.

How big would that majority be?

In the UK that sort of percentage is in, or beyond, Thatcher or Blair landslide territory. Electoral Dictatorship.

 

[C R]

How big would that majority be?

In the UK that sort of percentage is in, or beyond, Thatcher or Blair landslide territory. Electoral Dictatorship.

The Spanish PR system uses closed party lists and distributes the seats using the D'Hondt method. Each constituency is assigned a number of seats based on its population.

An extreme example is the 1982 PSOE landslide victory, they got 48% of the vote and 58% of the seats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_breakdown_of_the_1982_Spanish_general_election_(Congress)

I think any result above 35% is likely to produce an outright majority in the Spanish PR system.

The closed list system also means that the members of parliament very rarely rebel against party lines because deselection is straightforward. So electoral dictatorship is a thing in PR systems.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Spanish election today. Interesting article here about possible outcomes under their version of PR:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...nunez-feijoo-socialist-popular-party-vox/amp/

Possible caretaker government with new election in January if parties can't agree on power sharing (which it looks like they wouldn't).

 

[Pale Rider]

Possible caretaker government with new election in January if parties can't agree on power sharing (which it looks like they wouldn't).

That cannot be good for the overall governance of Spain - politicians spending months gazing at each other's navels.

And some people on here advocate PR for our country.

Do we want even more pointless politicking?

I think not.

 

[the snail]

The last thing this country has ever needed is a coalition.

What it needs is for one party, doesn't really matter which one, to have enough of a majority to govern effectively.

Which is what our system is designed to produce, and does produce, more often than not.

Yeah, coz that's worked brilliantly since 2019

 

[BoldonLad]

While I can see the flaws in our FPPTP system (I live in a Constituency where a change of party returned is just about unthinkable, so, a vote for anyone except the current party is a wasted vote), I don't see the point in changing to a PR system, unless it gives a truly representative Government.

The only way I can see to do that is to allocate seats in Parliament in proportion to the National Vote (eg one person one vote, if Labour win 50% of vote, they get 50% of seats, etc), but, I don't see how individual MPs can then be "allocated" to Constituencies.

All of the PR systems I have seen touted are either complex, and/or, can (as apparently in the Spanish System) return a Government which is as skewed as our existing system.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Under PR, depending on the system, I think Ukip would have got 80 seats at their best showing, possibly holding the balance of power. FPTP does keep the more extreme parties out, to some extent anyway. Not sure how the Spanish far right party would do in today's election under a system like ours. I'd be interested to see a calculation. Bit moot really as neither of the big 2 here want PR as it obviously limits what they can do once in power. Which could be good or bad depending on your view and whether you're in charge or opposition

 

[BoldonLad]

Under PR, depending on the system, I think Ukip would have got 80 seats at their best showing, possibly holding the balance of power. FPTP does keep the more extreme parties out, to some extent anyway. Not sure how the Spanish far right party would do in today's election under a system like ours. I'd be interested to see a calculation. Bit moot really as neither of the big 2 here want PR as it obviously limits what they can do once in power. Which could be good or bad depending on your view and whether you're in charge or opposition

Perhaps, a case of "be careful what you you wish for".

UK Referendum experiences suggest outcomes are not always for the best.

In my opinion, the real problem is not really FPPTP but rather the lack of engagement in Political choices by the General Public.

 

[albion]

If every vote counted then engagement obviously goes up.