97yo convicted in Holocaust trial

[albion]

Reverse Godwin?

Godwin outlaws?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Take a butcher's here. It's a bit of a stretch when you're designing gas chambers and crematoria to suggest you're not aware of their intended use.

I read about it in the Bauhaus museum, top floor of the Bauhaus house. Dessau was also home to Junkers and Heinkel bomber factories and the place where Zyklon was manufactured. Lots of wailing in the museum that the factories got bombed during the war.

Is this the main 'School Bulding'? When I was there a few weeks back it was pretty-much empty for refurbing. I was aware of Junkers (they made radiators and stuff before the war), but not aware of Zyklon B.
The only useful exhibition was the ground floor building materials exhibition.

I saved the 'Houses' for another visit should I get to return....

I guess you can't expected everybody that went through the Bauhaus to be a good'un....

 

[Rusty Nails]

Reverse Godwin?

Niwdog!

 

[Unkraut]

It is true that the extent of the extermination efforts may not have been known by the general public in the UK and the US until the liberation of the camps, but it would have been known by the governments.

Reading a history of the enigma decoding at Bletchley Park it was known what was going on from decrypts, but no attempt was made to stop it by bombing the intrastructure ostensibly for fear of compromising the secrecy of the code breaking. I wonder sometimes.

Another book I read was a biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran pastor in the principled resistance to Hitler and executed just before the end of the war on Hitler's instructions out of sheer spite. By the time Hitler had been in power for about 18 months there was no non-military way he could ever have been deposed. The civilian population was simply handed over to complete domination by the Nazi machine. Helpless. The book describes how those who did not support Hitler went into 'internal exile', had to occupy themselves with other things to try to survive the awfulness of it. There was nothing you could do that would not risk life and limb.

As far as this particular trial goes I haven't followed it. It is good that there is no statute of limitations when it comes to genocide regarding those who carried it out. This is the correct message to sent out to current tyrants that they can never know until their life's end whether justice may yet catch them up.

It does raise questions as to why those with considerably more guilt than this particular woman were not brought to trial decades ago when conviction would have been much easier. It does seem a bit late in the day to try to assauge a guilty conscience for not having taken more action in the past.

 

[Bromptonaut]

It does raise questions as to why those with considerably more guilt than this particular woman were not brought to trial decades ago when conviction would have been much easier. It does seem a bit late in the day to try to assauge a guilty conscience for not having taken more action in the past.

Ever since they started prosecuting confused old people who were bit part players I've wondered who was complicit in letting much bigger fish off the hook in the fifties...

 

[C R]

Reading a history of the enigma decoding at Bletchley Park it was known what was going on from decrypts, but no attempt was made to stop it by bombing the intrastructure ostensibly for fear of compromising the secrecy of the code breaking. I wonder sometimes.

Another book I read was a biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran pastor in the principled resistance to Hitler and executed just before the end of the war on Hitler's instructions out of sheer spite. By the time Hitler had been in power for about 18 months there was no non-military way he could ever have been deposed. The civilian population was simply handed over to complete domination by the Nazi machine. Helpless. The book describes how those who did not support Hitler went into 'internal exile', had to occupy themselves with other things to try to survive the awfulness of it. There was nothing you could do that would not risk life and limb.

As far as this particular trial goes I haven't followed it. It is good that there is no statute of limitations when it comes to genocide regarding those who carried it out. This is the correct message to sent out to current tyrants that they can never know until their life's end whether justice may yet catch them up.

It does raise questions as to why those with considerably more guilt than this particular woman were not brought to trial decades ago when conviction would have been much easier. It does seem a bit late in the day to try to assauge a guilty conscience for not having taken more action in the past.

There would also have been human intelligence from people who managed to escape, from the resistance of occupied countries, and axis journalists like Curzio Malaparte were reporting on it. Malaparte nearly got himself killed by the Germans because he wouldn't hold his tongue. There would have been no need to rely on Enigma intercepts to know what was happening.

 

[All uphill]

Ever since they started prosecuting confused old people who were bit part players I've wondered who was complicit in letting much bigger fish off the hook in the fifties...

That's an interesting question. I wonder if the need to get the German economy moving so the population could be fed trumped the need for justice.

It wouldn't have been a good look to let people starve by imprisoning a lot of the business owners, organisers and bureaucrats.

 

[matticus]

By the time Hitler had been in power for about 18 months there was no non-military way he could ever have been deposed. The civilian population was simply handed over to complete domination by the Nazi machine. Helpless. The book describes how those who did not support Hitler went into 'internal exile', had to occupy themselves with other things to try to survive the awfulness of it. There was nothing you could do that would not risk life and limb.

I can well believe that was the case.

But to play Devils Advocate; or perhaps just look at this from the other end ...
If you say that admin clerks etc shouldn't be prosecuted due to the coercive regime, how high up does that exemption go? Camp Commanders? The generals that conceived of (and ran) the extermination campaign?

 

[AndyRM]

Most atrocities go hidden. I suppose it was only the opening up of Germany by the Allied forces that brought stuff into the open more quickly. The Internet makes it harder to suppress these things nowadays but probably wasn't that difficult years ago when you vouldxeadily keep out foreign journalists and suppress newspapers. Not just war stuff either. Look how long it took for things like the Magdalena laundries to be fully exposed.

Most atrocities go hidden?

That's utter nonsense.

 

[BoldonLad]

Most atrocities go hidden?

That's utter nonsense.

Depends what you mean by “hidden” I suppose. They may come to light eventually, but, I would guess that most are hidden, at the time they occur. Plus, in a conflict, the victors atrocities are more likely to remain hidden for longer. IMHO.

 

[fozy tornip]

That is certainly part of the reason for the focus on Naxi Germany.

With 5 or so movies planned for the 'Avatar' franchise, will we see a Na'vi Germany?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Most atrocities go hidden?

That's utter nonsense.

I was talking about the past, as the full quote shows, and the context of the discussion was war atrocities. As I said, pre Internet it was easier to suppress information, though China seem to be making a good attempt to control it.

 

[AndyRM]

I was talking about the past, as the full quote shows, and the context of the discussion was war atrocities. As I said, pre Internet it was easier to suppress information, though China seem to be making a good attempt to control it.

OK, mea culpa. A dickish comment on my part. I apologise.

 

[Ian H]

In his new book, The Nazis Next Door, Lichtblau reports that thousands of Nazis managed to settle in the United States after World War II, often with the direct assistance of American intelligence officials who saw them as potential spies and informants in the Cold War against the Soviet Union.
View: https://www.npr.org/2014/11/05/361427276/how-thousands-of-nazis-were-rewarded-with-life-in-the-u-s

 

[The Crofted Crest]

In his new book, The Nazis Next Door, Lichtblau reports that thousands of Nazis managed to settle in the United States after World War II, often with the direct assistance of American intelligence officials who saw them as potential spies and informants in the Cold War against the Soviet Union.
View: https://www.npr.org/2014/11/05/361427276/how-thousands-of-nazis-were-rewarded-with-life-in-the-u-sI

I thought it was well known that the yanks got to the moon thanks to the nazis. This from wiki:

"Operation Paperclip was a secret United States intelligence program in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians were taken from the former Nazi Germany to the U.S. for government employment after the end of World War II in Europe, between 1945 and 1959. Conducted by the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA), it was largely carried out by special agents of the U.S."

The reasoning being that if Uncle Sam didn't get 'em, Uncle Joe would.