A touch of the Irish

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multitool

Pharaoh
The current amnesty seems squarely aimed at protecting British soldiers from further prosecution, presumably as a sop to UK mainland public opinion.

There are about 200 unsolved murders and serious crimes of violence committed against British servicemen that will also cease to be investigated. Some in the military are pretty pìssed about that.

It isn't all about 'British' atrocities, especially given the outcome of the Saville inquiry.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
What odds on "peace and goodwill" in this century? ;)
 
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Ian H

Ian H

Legendary Member
There are about 200 unsolved murders and serious crimes of violence committed against British servicemen that will also cease to be investigated. Some in the military are pretty pìssed about that.

It isn't all about 'British' atrocities, especially given the outcome of the Saville inquiry.

Perhaps not in actual outcome, but I think public opinion as perceived by the Tories is the driver. Whether officially or not, the British soldiers were combatants whereas a substantial number of their victims were not.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
What odds on "peace and goodwill" in this century? ;)

In Ireland? Peace already exists. Goodwill? All depends on whether the young carry their parents' grievances, and, of course, how well the Republic of Ireland accommodates the British minority they are soon to inherit.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Sure, I'm not disputing that. I haven't given any value judgement on the Legacy Bill. What I am saying is that discussions over amnesties are not new.

This Bill was always highly likely to come at some point. 25 years ago, the amnesties had to be offered in secret, and kept secret. Clearly, those now pushing for the Bill view it as the appropriate time.

In a decade or two it will cease to matter anyway because the perpetrators will be dead, and Ireland will be reunited anyway.
So stop trying to change what my point was about...this isn't the GFA ! My initial point was there's been very little on this in the media this side of the water.If your interested from the committee

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-...land-troubles-legacy-and-reconciliation-bill/
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Whether officially or not, the British soldiers were combatants whereas a substantial number of their victims were not.

188 to be precise.

Which is almost exactly ten times fewer than the number killed by paramilitaries. And six times fewer than the number of British servicemen killed. Only 300 IRA were killed by anybody.

Of course, I don't know how many of these resulted in prosecutions and convictions.
 

mudsticks

Squire
What odds on "peace and goodwill" in this century? ;)

From my admittedly limited, and only over a couple of days contact with people who had been directly involved eg throwing rocks at soldiers, losing relatives in the troubles, hearing people (from both sides) speak of of living through those times, there's a great deal of efforts made around trying to leave the conflict behind, and wanting to move forwards towards better times with peace and goodwill.

Of course there will be some who still want to fight, and the airing of long held grievances around injustice, and violence done on both sides, you can see it in some of the more recent graffiti there.

But on the whole there seems very little appetite for further bloodshed.

I'm guessing that brexit will hasten the move towards a united Ireland, idk that's just a hunch.

Can that be done 'peacefully' if it happens?
Let's hope so.

But the British Government stepping with a tone deaf bill like this seems to be particularly tone deaf.

You can't have truth and reconciliation without the truth bit being allowed to happen 😕

"The Committee emphasises that the Bill is a unilateral move away from the 2014 Stormont House Agreement in which parties in Northern Ireland, together with the British and Irish governments, decided on mechanisms to better assist these families, and to pursue justice. That agreement was endorsed again by both governments, in the 2015 Fresh Start and the 2020 New Decade, New Approach deals."
 

multitool

Pharaoh
To be honest I'm not sure what other outcome you could expect if you send the army in to defend the indefensible.

Well, as you know, they were purportedly sent in to defend the Catholics...

Sending any army anywhere usually results in civilian deaths one way or another. I'm far more bothered by recent killings in Afghanistan by still serving soldiers than I am by things that happened half a century ago.

It's a shame that the officer(s) who ordered the paratroopers to open fire on unarmed protesters in Derry got away with it, because I do not believe that the soldiers took it open themselves to do it.
 
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Deleted member 49

Guest
Well, as you know, they were purportedly sent in to defend the Catholics...

Sending any army anywhere usually results in civilian deaths one way or another. I'm far more bothered by recent killings in Afghanistan by still serving soldiers than I am by things that happened half a century ago.

It's a shame that the officer(s) who ordered the paratroopers to open fire on unarmed protesters in Derry got away with it, because I do not believe that the soldiers took it open themselves to do it.
Your sorry ffs...and you think I've a narrow view
 
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Ian H

Ian H

Legendary Member
Well, as you know, they were purportedly sent in to defend the Catholics...
Not quite, though the republicans did initially think the army was going to protect them from loyalist violence. But not for long.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
So British soldiers accused of war crimes never face justice ? This is fair because the GFA released convicted terrorists you say.The difference is that the terrorists were tried, convicted & released; the soldiers weren't.
Then you come out with this patronizing sh1t.
It's a shame that the officer(s) who ordered the paratroopers to open fire on unarmed protesters in Derry got away with it, because I do not believe that the soldiers took it open themselves to do it.
It's a shame 🙄
 
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Ian H

Ian H

Legendary Member
So British soldiers accused of war crimes never face justice ? This is fair because the GFA released convicted terrorists you say.The difference is that the terrorists were tried, convicted & released; the soldiers weren't.
Then you come out with this patronizing sh1t.

It's a shame 🙄

I think MT is making the valid point that it's only ever the foot soldiers that get punished, never the ones in charge.
 
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