A win for Mr Depp

[mudsticks]

The first post on The Football thread over on CC always makes me laugh.

I'm going to have to go and look now. 🙄

 

[Xipe Totec]

Who gives a f**k about Depp or Wagatha spunkface, what difference does any of it matter to normal people like us?

3am drunk-posting again?

Hope your head's not too bad in the morning... 😜

 

[mudsticks]

Some legal minds on the so called 'win' for Mr Depp

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rd-johnny-depp-verdict-overturn-b2093795.html

 

[Deleted member 28]

3am drunk-posting again?

Hope your head's not too bad in the morning... 😜

Why is it I must be drunk yet limpnoodle started a thread called 'the 3am club ' and that's perfectly acceptable?

Ever thought I may have been on a callout and had 10 minutes to waste?

 

[Xipe Totec]

Why is it I must be drunk yet limpnoodle started a thread called 'the 3am club ' and that's perfectly acceptable?

Ever thought I may have been on a callout and had 10 minutes to waste?

Why would I think that? I have no idea what you do - and you may well have mistaken me for someone who gives a sh!t.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

And why is that?
Because women are the ones who get hurt the most.

Nope Women are the generally the one that get physically hurt the most.
an important difference
Especially in this case, because of all the private conversations we have seen, we can also establish Heard abuse was much much worse. I invite you to prove me wrong if you don't agree there is 3 years of court cases showing the opposite. namely an overwhelming amount of abuse of heard aimed at Depp and his daughter, who also felt abused by Heard.. How does that ''believe all women'' work in this case? Beleive all women unless that are the daughter off? or ex-partner?

Women are trying to support and protect other women.
Is that wrong in your eyes..??

Nope a tunnelvision is wrong, If you follow something like ''believe all women'' you're vision gets clouded. Sometimes supporting and protecting also means telling someone he or she is wrong.
Can you also please tell me where that protection is for the women who testified Heard litterly copied her rape ''story''(in '' because i use story by lack of a better word), she told Heard not to copy and claim as he own but because she made the mistake of trusting Heard? How was she protected?

It's the same ol same old .
As soon as you start talking about the incidence of DV against women, it's immediately countered with.
"Men get abused too you know"

Well shocker this was about a high profile case which actually was a men against a women, both claimed to be abused by eachother so yes surely your gonna get that discussion. A bit simple to pretend it's getting drawn into that direction, it was always about that.
It would be more worrying if it was merely about the color of cars, dresses, suits etc. they where driving around in. The essence was an abuse case in Which Heard claimed a lot and got caught out in downright lying even more. (and no that has nothing to do with her being a women) and then still there are some here that call a article ''decent'' (yes you @theclaud ) that only focusses on one side and starts by calling Depp and ''classic abuser'' In my view an decent article doesn't call any names or qualification like ''classic abuser'' but looks at the facts of both parties and makes and balanced overview. an decent article makes the reader decide who's wrong or right without omitting facts, or otherwise, but writer capable or that are very hard to find.


Because if one thing the past 3 years has shown, is that Heard is abusive and manipulative, it only the question in how far Depp is guilty of that too. I don't think where gonna find out in a possible appeal on this defamation case or in a deformation case(a other Heard vs Depp) , because defamation cases lend themselves for show too much, if either Depp or Heard presses real charges (unlikely considering Heard being caught lying like in this case could lead to charges like in the Smollet case. and offcourse the same for Depp) or Depp or Heard gets sued by an future or former partner, even if that also is an deformation it will expose patterns and create an undeniably picture.

But what's so rarely looking at, let alone tackled, is that underlying attitude of supposed 'hardness' that so many men seem committed to performing.

Tackle that, and we might get somewhere.

Edit, split quotes didn't work so stars are to seperate the text blocks..

Almost just as rarely as women almost automatically seen as ''victims'' like i highlighted above absolutely true in terms of physical abuse but questionable if you see abuse for what it really is.
And if we really want to tackle and talk about abuse we got to see beyond the ''hardness'' or beyond the ''automatic victim'' because in my view the only automatic victims are children, they will always notice, they will always see, and they will always blame themselves.

So if you want to tackle abuse you have to be willing to see all to abuse, and that is complicated, i mean if it was just an case of woman good men bad than it would be easy but in reality it's often much more complicated.
Like we saw somewhere last year in the news an old lady in her pyjama's saying she killed her husband because he was abusive.. it was only after his family stood up for him it turned out she was the evil one, and her past partners had either commited suicide or had an strange accident, finally resulting in her being locked up.

I'm not saying i know the holy grail as to how to tackle abuse but i do see that the current way is not working at all. It's to much about he said she said, while we should be above that and see the bigger picture. out of all the great things we find out it's a pity we haven't found a way to manage these kind of issues better.

 

[theclaud]

Why is the 'Dutch' geezer tagging me? Does he imagine it will induce me to read through that dross?

 

[mudsticks]

Why is the 'Dutch' geezer tagging me? Does he imagine it will induce me to read through that dross?

Honestly even I'm not going to try, and you know how much wasted effort I'll stupidly put into such sunk causes..

What was it Unkers was trying to claim ??

Oh yes...


"Incoherence is a hallmark of the whole woke CRT leftist mindset"


Ha de ha de ha..

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think you're way off the mark on this one, DutchGuy. I don't think there is any evidence that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be emotionally abusive than men. There is plenty to show that men are far more likely to be violent though - 2 women a week are killed by partners or ex partners in the UK. The fact that when a woman does kill a man it makes headline news doesn't negate the fact that in the vast majority of cases the violence comes from the male partner.

From what I've read, Heard's behaviour is not necessarily untypical of an abused partner. The idea that you can't be being abused unless you are absolutely passive 100% of the time is a damaging myth.

I'm on a few car forums and the glee with which some men have seized on the verdict as somehow proving some universal truth about women has been a real eye opener for me. It seems to reinforce their prejudices about women being gold diggers. Those who have been hurt by women are enjoying the vicarious thrill of seeing another woman punished because they couldn't punish the one who hurt them.

The most obvious thing to come out of this for me is that, like the OJ Simpson trial, it was primarily about who could present the other in a bad light in sound bites and snatched headlines. It was trial by Tik Tok and it exemplifies the woeful state of the modern American legal system.

(Edited for spelling)

 

[mudsticks]

I think you're way off the mark on this one, DutchGuy. I don't think there is any evidence that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be emotionally abusive than men. There is plenty to show that men are far more likely to be violent though - 2 women a week are killed by partners or ex partners in the UK. The fact that when a woman does kill a man it makes headline news doesn't negate the fact that in the vast majority of cases the violence comes from the male partner.

From what I've read, Heard's behaviour is not necessarily untypical of an abused partner. The idea that you can't be being abused unless you are absolutely passive 100% of the time is a damaging myth.

I'm on a few car forums and the glee with which some men have seized on the verdict as somehow proving some universal truth about women has been a real eye opener for me. It seems to reinforce their prejudices about women being gold diggers. Those who have been hurt by women are enjoying the vicarious thrill of seeing another woman punished because they couldn't punish the one who hurt them.

The most obvious thing to come out of this case is that, like the OJ Simpson trial, it was primarily about who could present the other in a bad light in sound bites and snatched headlines. It was trial by Tik Tok and it exemplies the woeful state of the modern American legal system.

I'm seeing quite a lot of this a lot too.

Even overheard on trains..

On the one side there's the myth of the 'perfect victim' that if you get sucked into retaliating then you've lost your 'status' as a 'proper' victim, and won't be believed.

But of course if you don't fight back?
Or leave?

Well why were you so passive??
Why didn't you do something ??

It's almost as if the whole system is pitched in favour of the abuser.

That the victim is predestined to 'fail'.

 

[mudsticks]

Who gives a f**k about Depp or Wagatha spunkface, what difference does any of it matter to normal people like us?

So you wrote this whilst sober??

Somehow that doesn't really make things any better ...

But hey, your superfan thought it was hilarious, so... 💃💃💃

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Why is the 'Dutch' geezer tagging me? Does he imagine it will induce me to read through that dross?

I told you, exactly why try reading?

Honestly even I'm not going to try, and you know how much wasted effort I'll stupidly put into such sunk causes..

What a surprise, why do i even bother with poeple like you always the same you don't know an answer so you say things like this really disappointing.

I think you're way off the mark on this one, DutchGuy. I don't think there is any evidence that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be emotionally abusive than men. There is plenty to show that men are far more likely to be violent though - 2 women a week are killed by partners or ex partners in the UK. The fact that when a woman does kill a man it makes headline news doesn't negate the fact that in the vast majority of cases the violence comes from the male partner.

If you go by media reports it's not really a reliable way. Well that is also the main issue, getting reliable numbers. in this research they tried, but admitted half way trough their research that most of their input is based on what women declare not on what they could independently verify: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4768593/ (it's quite lengthy and comprehensive alltough it explains the difference between domestic violence and abuse, it's focused on violence. )
a quote

An emergency clinic in Philadelphia found that 12,6 per cent of all male patients over thirteen week period were victims of domestic violence.31 Same results also reported Hines and Douglas.32 Authors Williams and Frieze agree that terms of battered women do not explain all of the patterns of violence that occur in couples. Data from their research shown that women can be equally violent or display even more frequent violent acts than men toward partners: 21.6 per cent victims were male, 28.7 per cent victims were women, bilateral violent and abusive were 49 per cent of couples. They considered that many study in the past were based only on women’s reports.33 Brown and also Henning and Renauer found that men compared to female offenders were likely to be arrested. They are also treated more harshly by criminal justice system. Brown found that in case where only the male partner was injured, the female was charged in 60.2 per cent of the cases, however, when the female partner was injured, the male was charged 91.1 per cent of the time. In no-injury cases, the male was charged 52.5 per cent of the time, the female 13.2 per cent of the time.

In absolute numbers far more women are victim of violence than men that is true, however the research also confirms/investigated the possibility(but lacks a definite conclusion)

in a other research from the same source (here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3876290/ )

Which gender is more emotionally abusive?
Females
Females reported perpetrating slightly more psychological aggression than males (86% vs. 82%), and in terms of reported physical aggression, 29% of males and 35% of females admitted to perpetration. In terms of both psychological and physical abuse, there were no statistically significant gender differences.

So it does prove that women are more emotionally abusive, be it by not a very large margin. Both studies explicitly mention a large difference in reporting of violence and or emotional abuse by men, as opposed to women. and as proved above, women get away with it more often too.

From what I've read, Heard's behaviour is not necessarily untypical of an abused partner. The idea that you can't be being abused unless you are absolutely passive 100% of the time is a damaging myth.

My point was not about Heard being a ''typicall or atypicall'' abuse victim, my point was theclaud (i won't tag this time) claimed and article was decent, when it sets away Depp as a classical abuser and Heard as a typicall abuse victim. My point is that you can't call an article decent if that's the starting point, which is correct because the rest of that article, continued to go on an to be Heard centric.
I made my opinion clear earlier i believe Heard is more abusive then Depp, supported by all the footage we have heard and read, supported by a former Pa of Heard who testified she (Heard) used her Rape story and told it as her own and by Johnny's ex-es who testified to deny Heard wild allegations. (to support putting him away as an serial abuser.)
I mean you can call her an a typical victim all you want, that doesn't explain all the lies, from claiming to have used a certain product to cover up an black eye that wasn't even on the market at time she said she used it, to the fact that law enforcement never found any evidence.
You can claim Depp hid it or something but with all these things together it becomes very unrealistic, especially since on Depp's side there have been no such claims. Yes it's an old guy with a your women, morally wrong on many levels, but that does'nt make him an abuser.

I'm on a few car forums and the glee with which some men have seized on the verdict as somehow proving some universal truth about women has been a real eye opener for me. It seems to reinforce their prejudices about women being gold diggers. Those who have been hurt by women are enjoying the vicarious thrill of seeing another woman punished because they couldn't punish the one who hurt them.

I find on car forums that is mostly the toughttrain, especially on car modding/tuning communities. However i found that more applaing in case of Meghan and Harry, where Meghan was next to the racist abuse put away as a gold digger where she had an good career before Harry so it was not only unjustified but also nonsense.

Where as Heard, i don't say she didn't for that reason i don't say she is an gold digger but the term makes more sense to her married/dating an successful influential actor at the beginning of her career then Meghan who was already an established name before she met Harry.

The most obvious thing to come out of this case is that, like the OJ Simpson trial, it was primarily about who could present the other in a bad light in sound bites and snatched headlines. It was trial by Tik Tok and it exemplies the woeful state of the modern American legal system.

It was an deformation case, a criminal case like for example the Smollet case is handled differenly but also comes with more consequences, Heard would have been prosecuted should she have been found guilty off lying/false testimonies etc. (same for Depp)

 

[mudsticks]

I told you, exactly why try reading?


What a surprise, why do i even bother with poeple like you always the same you don't know an answer so you say things like this really disappointing.



If you go by media reports it's not really a reliable way. Well that is also the main issue, getting reliable numbers. in this research they tried, but admitted half way trough their research that most of their input is based on what women declare not on what they could independently verify: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4768593/ (it's quite lengthy and comprehensive alltough it explains the difference between domestic violence and abuse, it's focused on violence. )
a quote

In absolute numbers far more women are victim of violence than men that is true, however the research also confirms/investigated the possibility(but lacks a definite conclusion)

in a other research from the same source (here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3876290/ )
So it does prove that women are more emotionally abusive, be it by not a very large margin. Both studies explicitly mention a large difference in reporting of violence and or emotional abuse by men, as opposed to women. and as proved above, women get away with it more often too.



My point was not about Heard being a ''typicall or atypicall'' abuse victim, my point was theclaud (i won't tag this time) claimed and article was decent, when it sets away Depp as a classical abuser and Heard as a typicall abuse victim. My point is that you can't call an article decent if that's the starting point, which is correct because the rest of that article, continued to go on an to be Heard centric.
I made my opinion clear earlier i believe Heard is more abusive then Depp, supported by all the footage we have heard and read, supported by a former Pa of Heard who testified she (Heard) used her Rape story and told it as her own and by Johnny's ex-es who testified to deny Heard wild allegations. (to support putting him away as an serial abuser.)
I mean you can call her an a typical victim all you want, that doesn't explain all the lies, from claiming to have used a certain product to cover up an black eye that wasn't even on the market at time she said she used it, to the fact that law enforcement never found any evidence.
You can claim Depp hid it or something but with all these things together it becomes very unrealistic, especially since on Depp's side there have been no such claims. Yes it's an old guy with a your women, morally wrong on many levels, but that does'nt make him an abuser.





I find on car forums that is mostly the toughttrain, especially on car modding/tuning communities. However i found that more applaing in case of Meghan and Harry, where Meghan was next to the racist abuse put away as a gold digger where she had an good career before Harry so it was not only unjustified but also nonsense.

Where as Heard, i don't say she didn't for that reason i don't say she is an gold digger but the term makes more sense to her married/dating an successful influential actor at the beginning of her career then Meghan who was already an established name before she met Harry.


It was an deformation case, a criminal case like for example the Smollet case is handled differenly but also comes with more consequences, Heard would have been prosecuted should she have been found guilty off lying/false testimonies etc. (same for Depp)

What a surprise, why do i even bother with poeple like you always the same you don't know an answer so you say things like this really disappointing.

Why do you think I owe you an answer to your incoherent ramblings, about supposed 'gender equality' of perpetration of abuse ??

That's a good dollop of male privelege , and arrogance right there .

As it happens I've engaged with you on many topics at length, beyond the limit of my patience, notwithstanding English not being your first language.

Look at some of the quotes from Mr Depp about wanting to f*CK ms Heards dead corpse.

About how she'll having to be giving blow jobs in the underpass, to support herself , if she leaves him.

The vile outpourings of misogyny as people all over the internet gleefully hopes she'll have to open an 'only friends' account to pay her legal fees .

Vile, vile stuff.

The misogyny, the delight in women being hurt or punished for daring to write an article about DV is plain to see.

Please remember too that the Sun was found not guilty of inaccurate reporting, when they called Depp a wife beater.

The US court has found that the article ms Heard wrote which didn't even mention Mr Depp) had defamed him
It didn't absolve him of being an abuser himself.

I could go on, but that's more of my time already that I prepared to spend in responding to you.

#metoo, hasn't even got started, hasn't scratched the surface .

And that's part of the problem , isn't it ??

Too many chickens potentially coming to roost .

Must stamp it all down before women start demanding they be treated properly.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Dutchguy - I haven't followed the case in detail so don't feel qualified to comment on individual pieces of evidence. The US legal system obviously operates differently than in the UK. I do think you are quick to dismiss 'hearsay' type evidence from the Heard side whilst supporting similar evidence from Depp's side.

I don't think Heard married Depp for money or prestige though; she was pretty successful already. They seem to have been genuinely besotted with each other initially and it seems to have been a loving if intense relationship on both sides, albeit shortlived.

I don't think the research you have linked is anything near as weighty as you believe. Even if we acknowledge the obvious fact that emotional domestic abuse of men by women is under reported (which it is, obvs) it still doesn't show that women abuse more than men in anything near significant figures.

Nobody came out of that court case looking good but I still think it hinged on whose lawyer could convincingly best disparage the other. Some of the comments by Depp are truly hateful and misogynistic and it's galling to see him touted as a hero to men. Plenty of women were also cheering him on too though, which is a bit depressing.

 

[Badger_Boom]

I'm seeing quite a lot of this a lot too.

Even overheard on trains..

On the one side there's the myth of the 'perfect victim' that if you get sucked into retaliating then you've lost your 'status' as a 'proper' victim, and won't be believed.

But of course if you don't fight back?
Or leave?

Well why were you so passive??
Why didn't you do something ??

It's almost as if the whole system is pitched in favour of the abuser.

That the victim is predestined to 'fail'.

A good (female) friend of mine escaped such a relationship, but only after her husband beat the stuffing out of her one night for no particular reason than he thought she wasn't pulling her weight and had questiuoned his manly capabilities. She ended up fleeing the country she'd lived in for decades after he was let off with a hefty fine because he was considered of otherwise good character, and had his whole life and career in front of him and a custodial sentece might have harmed his prospects.

The most surprising thing was that even after the court case a lot of 'their' friends threw their lot in with her ex-husband on the grounds that she must have done something to provoke him, and he was always nice to them so it couldn't really be true.