Apparently, this 'women' thing has gone too far...

[winjim]

So it's hard not to laugh at someone joining "The Common Sense Group" [they wouldn't have me ]:

but you folks are pulling some acrobatics to twist these words; I assume the Guardian can be trusted, so here's what he said about role models etc:


Let's look at the bold text. " ... make crime look cool"; now, is he putting that with the previous clause - the one about the Krays and Peaky Blinders - or is he linking that back to Ghostbusters and Luke Skywalker??

It gets more hilarious when he issues a clarification; apparently the clarification is wrong, according to well-reputed telepaths on Cyclechat/NACA.
Amazing

The Equalizer's a vigilante mercenary. How is that not making crime look cool?

 

[FishFright]

View attachment 268

International Men's Day? Is that a thing?

Ask Richard Herring

 

[Deleted member 28]

The Equalizer's a vigilante mercenary. How is that not making crime look cool?

Worked for Robin Hood!

 

[Rusty Nails]

Fictional characters are not role models, except to those who have no sense of reality.
There are probably a lot more token men and women in villain/hero roles than in the past to try and redress some of the real-life and fictional imbalance of the past.
Doesn't do a great deal of harm, but is very unlikely to do a great deal of good. A concern I have is that it reinforces the prejudices of the already prejudiced and converts very few.

 

[mudsticks]

I think that's already clear from his comments about the Krays et al?


I think you need some weird microscope to keep focusing on the Dr Who thing! Still, it's playing well on this thread, so keep going👍

I expect he knows, and you know, that the actresses don't make the decisions, so it's probably moot. But I think he was focusing on existing male roles getting swapped out. (Has he bitched about Wonder Woman? Or Suranne Jones? ] It's swings and roundabouts whether these cast changes are a "good thing", but if those roles WERE good role models, then you can't disagree with the statement that male role models were reduced in number by those swaps. It's just illogical, captain!

I'd recommend hearing Caitlin Moran's view on the women in male roles - she has a different twist on this. She certainly doesn't think a female Bond is essential, nor Marvel women in lycra. I won't try to mansplain the details, get it from the horse's mouth ...

Well it's not that difficult 'captain' (?!)
Go create some more good role models of either gender or none.

And make good films (or whatever) about them

It's not like there's a shortage of writers or actors out there.

I'm not focussing particularly on Dr Who anyway, Bond and others were mentioned too.


Funding for making this stuff, maybe that's harder.

Fwiw I see no harm in occasionally, or even often, swapping the gender roles around, especially where women get to play strong leads, in established parts.

After all there's still a dearth of positive role models for young women, that don't revolve around over sexualising themselves, being 'sweet angels' or making it all about 'getting the guy' or 'having to be rescued'.

We've still got centuries of influence, lurking in the background (or foreground ) of our psyches from stories where those have been the main role for women.

Oh apart from the evil stepmother, or witch, or whatever else.. All pretty one dimensional right??

 

[winjim]

Worked for Robin Hood!

Indeed, a hero but very famously an outlaw. Is that what members of the government are now suggesting?

Anyway, even Robin Hood went woke and female led back in the '80s

 

[Deleted member 28]

Fictional characters are not role models, except to those who have no sense of reality.

I would imagine a lot would disagree with you there, what about these stories we here of young men going out committing crimes after they've been playing endless violent video games?

The characters in those are fictional or does it only count if it's on television/cinema?

Personally I think it's all bollox, by the way. (the substituting Male's for Female's as a role model issue)

The one thing I do disagree with is that if a character was created to be a Man or White or a Woman or Black then that's what any future casting should be, if a new character needs to be created then create one. It's just another 'make everyone feel included' rubbish.

James Bond should be a White, Heterosexual Male and that's it!

 

[newfhouse]

Fictional characters are not role models

Not even to children or other developing minds? I think you’re wrong on this. If a footballer can be a role model for some - by which I mean someone that allows you to see and explore a way of being - then why can’t a well drawn fictional character?

 

[mudsticks]

Fictional characters are not role models, except to those who have no sense of reality.
There are probably a lot more token men and women in villain/hero roles than in the past to try and redress some of the real-life and fictional imbalance of the past.
Doesn't do a great deal of harm, but is very unlikely to do a great deal of good. A concern I have is that it reinforces the prejudices of the already prejudiced and converts very few.

But then we've all observed our kids casting themselves in any number of imaginary roles.

And that forms them to a certain degree as kids
And I'm sure as adults too.

I know I got inspiration from the (at the time relatively few) adventurous , and self assured female characters that I read about as a girl

Definitely a case of

"Well if they can, so can I"

And that's definitely carried on even in terms of nowadays.

Younger women than me, having heard about some of the things I've done, have said that it's 'inspired' them to do the same.


The stories we hear and tell about 'people like us' have a strong influence, even if only as a backcloth to the rest of our lives.

 

[mudsticks]

Personally I think it's all bollox, by the way. (the substituting Male's for Female's as a role model issue)

The one thing I do disagree with is that if a character was created to be a Man or White or a Woman or Black then that's what any future casting should be, if a new character needs to be created then create one. It's just another 'make everyone feel included' rubbish.

James Bond should be a White, Heterosexual Male and that's it!

End of

 

[Ian H]

...what about these stories we here of young men going out committing crimes after they've been playing endless violent video games?

Standard tabloid bollocks. The arguments about cause & effect are complicated and unresolved.

 

[Hitchington]

I would imagine a lot would disagree with you there, what about these stories we here of young men going out committing crimes after they've been playing endless violent video games?

They are just stories. There is no evidence that playing violent video games makes you commit crime.

Edit - TMN to Ian

 

[Hitchington]

The one thing I do disagree with is that if a character was created to be a Man or White or a Woman or Black then that's what any future casting should be, if a new character needs to be created then create one. It's just another 'make everyone feel included' rubbish.

James Bond should be a White, Heterosexual Male and that's it!

Did it make you feel left out when the Doctor regenerated into a woman?

 

[FishFright]

But then we've all observed our kids casting themselves in any number of imaginary roles.

And that forms them to a certain degree as kids
And I'm sure as adults too.

I know I got inspiration from the (at the time relatively few) adventurous , and self assured female characters that I read about as a girl

Definitely a case of

"Well if they can, so can I"

And that's definitely carried on even in terms of nowadays.

Younger women than me, having heard about some of the things I've done, have said that it's 'inspired' them to do the same.


The stories we hear and tell about 'people like us' have a strong influence, even if only as a backcloth to the rest of our lives.

Just as an aside , As a youngster I was voracious reader in a home without a lot of books in it so I always read the books my mum and sister brought home too and continued to read book aimed at female readers. I do wonder if this is why I grew up without the rigid 'them and us' feelings most of my male friends had at the time.

 

[matticus]

Well it's not that difficult 'captain' (?!)

I truly thought that no reference was too obscure to use here in NACA. Here you go, enjoy:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15020263-900-illogical-captain-the-physics-of-star-trek/