BRFR Cake Stop 'breaking news' miscellany

[briantrumpet]

Sorry it's in French, but I see that Switzerland is proposing to do road pricing for foreigners who cross the country, though it's a bit weird that they've passed the law without actually knowing how it's going to work in practical terms.

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/trafi...yer-une-taxe-pour-traverser-le-pays-103529891

 

[Mr Celine]

Sorry it's in French, but I see that Switzerland is proposing to do road pricing for foreigners who cross the country, though it's a bit weird that they've passed the law without actually knowing how it's going to work in practical terms.

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/trafi...yer-une-taxe-pour-traverser-le-pays-103529891

They've been doing it for years for their motorways. As does Austria, albeit with an extra charge for the Brenner Pass.

 

[briantrumpet]

They've been doing it for years for their motorways. As does Austria, albeit with an extra charge for the Brenner Pass.

Yup re motorways, but that's flat rate for a year. This one is variable road pricing in concept.

 

[briantrumpet]

The Daily Mail with its finger on the pulse of world news... and now's definitely the time to feature the writings of someone who's been dead for nearly two years.

 

[Psamathe]

I often see places when out cycling in the countryside with homemade banners saying "save our countryside, no to solar farms" or words to that effect in areas where there are acres of unused land and barely any houses or settlements around.

Whilst the RSPB slightly disproportionately focus on birds, they do recognise (and campaign for) that healthy ecosystems are necessary for birds.

Solar farms managed for nature can boost bird numbers and biodiversity​

Research by the RSPB and Cambridge University shows how management can benefit wildlife.

The research by scientists from the RSPB and University of Cambridge as part of the Centre for Landscape Regeneration found that – hectare for hectare – solar farms in agriculturally dominated East Anglia contained a greater number of bird species and overall number of birds than surrounding arable farmland.
Solar farms managed with nature in mind and in areas with a greater mix of habitats proved the best performers, having the greatest variety of species and nearly three times as many birds compared to nearby arable farmland.

 

[briantrumpet]

Whilst the RSPB slightly disproportionately focus on birds, they do recognise (and campaign for) that healthy ecosystems are necessary for birds.

Ah, that might have been the report I was hazily remembering. It's not as if the enormous monoculture fields of Lincolnshire are havens for diverse nature.

 

[Psamathe]

Sorry it's in French, but I see that Switzerland is proposing to do road pricing for foreigners who cross the country, though it's a bit weird that they've passed the law without actually knowing how it's going to work in practical terms.

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/trafi...yer-une-taxe-pour-traverser-le-pays-103529891

But then UK recently

Mileage-based electric car tax​

Electric car drivers will be subject to a mileage-based charge (dubbed 'eVED') on battery electric and plug-in hybrid cars from April 2028.

It has been officially confirmed that the mileage-based tax will equal 3p per mile for battery electric cars and 1.5p per mile between the 2028 and 2029 financial year. Electric vans, trucks and motorcycles will initially be exempt from the charge.

How will they know how many miles an EV has driven in a year on UK roads? ie some car owners can do significant miles heading to France/Germany/etc. on holidays. They could collect GPS data from the EVs but that becomes a significant Big Brother Gov. monitoring where and when you are driving). They could start taxing miles driven on overseas roads but that would seem a bit unfair. etc.

 

[Pross]

There’s a proposed solar farm development about a mile from my house (more like half a mile in a straight line). I’m genuinely baffled by the number of houses with ‘say no to the solar farm’ placards out. Many of these are further away than I am and there are probably fewer than 10 houses in total that will actually see it from one or more of their windows. Even then the actual panel will be facing away from them over than maybe two or three houses.

The fields are just rough grazings land and are bordered by a water treatment plant and a sewerage plant just down the hill. There is an existing solar farm a similar distance from me in another direction and I only know it’s there as I walk the dogs down a track leading to it so see the occasional maintenance vehicle.

 

[briantrumpet]

But then UK recently

How will they know how many miles an EV has driven in a year on UK roads? ie some car owners can do significant miles heading to France/Germany/etc. on holidays. They could collect GPS data from the EVs but that becomes a significant Big Brother Gov. monitoring where and when you are driving). They could start taxing miles driven on overseas roads but that would seem a bit unfair. etc.

It's an interesting question, as I think that's the way it's got to head, if car drivers are going to make a proportional contribution to the costs of the infrastructure they 'demand'. I can't help feeling that a GPS-based black-box solution is almost inevitable.

 

[briantrumpet]

There’s a proposed solar farm development about a mile from my house (more like half a mile in a straight line). I’m genuinely baffled by the number of houses with ‘say no to the solar farm’ placards out. Many of these are further away than I am and there are probably fewer than 10 houses in total that will actually see it from one or more of their windows. Even then the actual panel will be facing away from them over than maybe two or three houses.

The fields are just rough grazings land and are bordered by a water treatment plant and a sewerage plant just down the hill. There is an existing solar farm a similar distance from me in another direction and I only know it’s there as I walk the dogs down a track leading to it so see the occasional maintenance vehicle.

It's turned into a totemic outrage thing.

 

[Psamathe]

It's an interesting question, as I think that's the way it's got to head, if car drivers are going to make a proportional contribution to the costs of the infrastructure they 'demand'. I can't help feeling that a GPS-based black-box solution is almost inevitable.

Vehicles paying by use is something I think must be the way to go. More miles you drive more pollution, more infrastructure load, etc. so encourage people to drive less and to pay for they damage they are doing.

With ICEs easy as you can just add tax to fuel; which has the added benefit that lower milesages but in more damaging vehicles drivers still pay in proportion to the damage they cause.

I've not seen any proposed mechanism the UK plans for implement it's EV road pricing system but assuming they have (or will have) a viable method maybe that should cover ICE vehicles as well. Even if that means existing cars buying and installing some GPS based data collector so be it. Driving is not a right and the cost of such a device will be significantly less that 1 year insurance cover for most (or make it optional where have device exempts you from VED, don't have the device and existing 10 x VED charge).

 

[briantrumpet]

Vehicles paying by use is something I think must be the way to go. More miles you drive more pollution, more infrastructure load, etc. so encourage people to drive less and to pay for they damage they are doing.

With ICEs easy as you can just add tax to fuel; which has the added benefit that lower milesages but in more damaging vehicles drivers still pay in proportion to the damage they cause.

I've not seen any proposed mechanism the UK plans for implement it's EV road pricing system but assuming they have (or will have) a viable method maybe that should cover ICE vehicles as well. Even if that means existing cars buying and installing some GPS based data collector so be it. Driving is not a right and the cost of such a device will be significantly less that 1 year insurance cover for most (or make it optional where have device exempts you from VED, don't have the device and existing 10 x VED charge).

Zackly.

 

[Psamathe]

Zackly.

Isn't he more interested in wealth taxes than green issues these days?

 

[BoldonLad]

Sorry it's in French, but I see that Switzerland is proposing to do road pricing for foreigners who cross the country, though it's a bit weird that they've passed the law without actually knowing how it's going to work in practical terms.

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/trafi...yer-une-taxe-pour-traverser-le-pays-103529891

Haven't Switzerland had a "pricing" scheme for years, I definitely have bought a Carnet on crossing the border into Switzerland, one the years, actually, it is not uncommon in mainland Europe, I have even been pulled over in Czech Republic for not having a Carnet (through ignorance, not deliberate avoidance). The Policeman who pulled us over was very civil, he took a 10Dm "contribution" instead of a 100Dm fine. 😂

For vehicles over 3.5Tonne, Austria at least insists on a "black box" being purchased and used to pay for Motorway usage, I believe.

 

[briantrumpet]

Haven't Switzerland had a "pricing" scheme for years, I definitely have bought a Carnet on crossing the border into Switzerland, one the years, actually, it is not uncommon in mainland Europe, I have even been pulled over in Czech Republic for not having a Carnet (through ignorance, not deliberate avoidance). The Policeman who pulled us over was very civil, he took a 10Dm "contribution" instead of a 100Dm fine. 😂

For vehicles over 3.5Tonne, Austria at least insists on a "black box" being purchased and used to pay for Motorway usage, I believe.

The Swiss motorway 'vignette' has been around ages, but AFAIK, that was the only road fee (and was very low cost if you were there for a while. I don't think there's been any dynamic pricing scheme up till now.