Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

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First Aspect

Well-Known Member
Do you have a point?

The market did decide and chose EV cars.
There was no market when they were developed. It was the most viable technical solution for small personalised transportation.

It isn't the right technical solution for other modes of transport.

The "market" has "decided" to stick with petrochemicals long after they should have been abandoned, and is still doing so unless legislated against.
 
Again, do you have a point?
 

CXRAndy

Guru
There was no market when they were developed. It was the most viable technical solution for small personalised transportation.

It isn't the right technical solution for other modes of transport.

The "market" has "decided" to stick with petrochemicals long after they should have been abandoned, and is still doing so unless legislated against.

The market didn't decide, Alternatives weren't presented (oil companies survival) for mass adoption until

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First Aspect

Well-Known Member
That's one way of looking at it. But the viability of Tesla, particularly in the early days, relied on wokey dokey government policy. That is also what is driving uptake in the UK and Europe.

You could argue that the market has decided that batteries were better than liquid hydrogen I suppose. I would suggest it is physics, chemistry and engineering, but this semantics.
 
These days it's really easy to just ask Copilot stuff if you don't know about a subject.
But if you then copilot stuff you do know, you know why it seems an bad idea right?
Fact is vehicles using hydrogen as their main propulsion but with an ice or eletric engines are around for years and haven't fallen apart, so copilot presumably doesn't show the full context in this case.
probably because your question is too simple.


Do you have a point?

The market did decide and chose EV cars.
The car companies decided and then came up with models that didn't align with costumer demand.

That's one way of looking at it. But the viability of Tesla, particularly in the early days, relied on wokey dokey government policy. That is also what is driving uptake in the UK and Europe.
Tesla particularly before the model C was a status symbol, a showpiece that was nice to drive or be driven around in aswell. it served as replacement or along with cars like the Mercedes S class. currently we can indeed goverment policies being the main driver about purchases just as poeple replacing their EV's with ice cars again. and then we see an other hurdle especially if you expect people to buy these cars with their own money without goverment funding and that is second hand value or better worded the lack thereoff.


You could argue that the market has decided that batteries were better than liquid hydrogen I suppose. I would suggest it is physics, chemistry and engineering, but this semantics.
The market responded to goverments wanting quick soluttions and all kind of stupid bold statement about taking actions now battery / EV technology isn't new, so it was a safe concession.
from which most of them have either come back in full or scaled down their plans. Because the lack of sales.
 

First Aspect

Well-Known Member
The market, left to itself, would stick to petrochemicals and solve global warming with improved air conditioning.

Governments have decided to promote alternatives and the market has responded by providing the only viable solution.

I am struggling to see this as being market driven.
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Hydrogen is formed mainly from steam methane reforming. You are no further forward in getting away from fossil fuels to make a clean product.

Using electrolysis to create hydrogen requires 50kW of electrical energy to make 1kilo of hydrogen. It's not financially viable and if you set aside mainly of the world's solar and wind energy there wouldn't be enough hydrogen made for everyone.

I agree certain vehicles which don't leave a site like super heavy industry machines, there could be a viable use, not everyone
 

Psamathe

Über Member
Yes. A religious faith in the market isn't appropriate for this particular issue.
Not just for this issue. My impression is that "the market" is controlled by business and they have different aims other than the needs of society. Business is seeking every greater profits irrespective of the impact that has on anything.

Like the "self-regulation", those supposedly regulating themselves have very different aims than the purposes of the needed regulation.

Ian
 

briantrumpet

Senior Member
Not just for this issue. My impression is that "the market" is controlled by business and they have different aims other than the needs of society. Business is seeking every greater profits irrespective of the impact that has on anything.

Like the "self-regulation", those supposedly regulating themselves have very different aims than the purposes of the needed regulation.

Ian

A one-time boss of mine, a lifelong Tory, once memorably declared that he strongly believed in a "free market with controls".
 

CXRAndy

Guru
That's one way of looking at it. But the viability of Tesla, particularly in the early days, relied on wokey dokey government policy. That is also what is driving uptake in the UK and Europe.

You could argue that the market has decided that batteries were better than liquid hydrogen I suppose. I would suggest it is physics, chemistry and engineering, but this semantics.

Yes it was a risk, Tesla took it. People wanted it, that's why they bought the expensive early models. We bought into electric vehicles in 2015, full electric in 2017, Tesla in 2019.

Our extended family all own a Tesla now.
 
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