Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

[mudsticks]

Corr they found that quickly, old Rishi only granted the Exploration Licences last week.

With your "A" level English, remind me, what does "allegedly" mean?

Yes and in the second article it confirms that he has granted the licences to extract, as was speculated.

The North sea reserves are no secret.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes and in the second article it confirms that he has granted the licences to extract, as was speculated.

The North sea reserves are no secret.

I read it as “could” not “had”, but, no doubt the objective is to extract at least some of it.

There are various reserves off the coast of Uk, not just in the North Sea.

 

[Unkraut]

You OK @Rusty Nails ? it is quite a while since you went into the loft

He's probably found Aslan.

 

[Unkraut]

if you want to avoid all inconvenient change, you will seize on any narrative that portrays the problems as insignificant.

I want a sober assessment of what the problems are actually likely to be. I don't want sceptics pretending everything will carry on as normal, and I don't want to participate in what has become a new religion, climate catastrophe. Something that gives activists a purpose in life they otherwise wouldn't have, being rich, bored Westerners ...

If the problems are likely to be as serious as some say, why has the Fatherland just ditched its last nuclear power plants? I can't say I'm that keen on nuclear power, it is not without its risks (I live pretty close to one that closed down a couple of years ago), but this decision is irrational. You could at least use nuclear as a bridge before renewables come on stream. Germany isn't the problem with CO2, there is no need to panic.

Second anniversary of the devasting floods here just recently. There was similar flood about 120 years ago prior to warming. Not unique, but no longer in public memory. The weather forecaster who warned of the potential danger on the night of the flood said shortly afterwards 'don't blame this on global warming. It's not the direct cause'. Two weeks later I saw another interveiw where he said the opposite. I thought to myself is this due to further reflection on the cause of the flood, or has he changed his mind because he has been 'lent on' to go along with the narrative of doom? Either could be true.

Britain on Monday committed to granting hundreds of licences for North Sea oil and gas extraction as part of efforts to become more energy independent, drawing criticism from environmental campaigners.

The switch from fossil to renewables isn't likely to be complete until halfway through the century. Maybe the British govt looked at the utter. folly of Merkel's coalition in becoming dependant on Russian gas supplies*, and thought better to keep a potential supply of energy ready for any future eventuality that interrupts the current supply. Some big conflagration in the Middle East or something.

The hapless Trump even warned of this around 2017 but the German political establishment simply laughed. I hate to use this phrase, but they aren't laughing now!

 

[newfhouse]

Something that gives activists a purpose in life they otherwise wouldn't have, being rich, bored Westerners ...

 

[mudsticks]

I want a sober assessment of what the problems are actually likely to be. I don't want sceptics pretending everything will carry on as normal, and I don't want to participate in what has become a new religion, climate catastrophe. Something that gives activists a purpose in life they otherwise wouldn't have, being rich, bored Westerners ...

You can get a 'sober' assessment from any credible climate scientist.

It's not a 'new religion'

You don't have to have any faith in any kind of fairytale deity.
In fact the idea that some 'higher power' will step in to take care of everything, is part of the attitudinal problem.

You just have to understand the (very basic) science and read the data, and now see the evidence of what has been warned would happen, is happening.

Your claim that 'activists' are bored rich westerners is quite something.
You think that's what I am.??

You think that's what those activists in the global south are .??
Risking their lives to resist logging, oil pipelines, sea levels rising, desertification and the rest.

I've met activist's who have had their relatives 'dissappeared' due to their environmental activism.
I guess you think they're 'bored and rich' too??

If the problems are likely to be as serious as some say, why has the Fatherland just ditched its last nuclear power plants? I can't say I'm that keen on nuclear power, it is not without its risks (I live pretty close to one that closed down a couple of years ago), but this decision is irrational. You could at least use nuclear as a bridge before renewables come on stream. Germany isn't the problem with CO2, there is no need to panic.

Second anniversary of the devasting floods here just recently. There was similar flood about 120 years ago prior to warming. Not unique, but no longer in public memory. The weather forecaster who warned of the potential danger on the night of the flood said shortly afterwards 'don't blame this on global warming. It's not the direct cause'. Two weeks later I saw another interveiw where he said the opposite. I thought to myself is this due to further reflection on the cause of the flood, or has he changed his mind because he has been 'lent on' to go along with the narrative of doom? Either could be true.

The switch from fossil to renewables isn't likely to be complete until halfway through the century. Maybe the British govt looked at the utter. folly of Merkel's coalition in becoming dependant on Russian gas supplies*, and thought better to keep a potential supply of energy ready for any future eventuality that interrupts the current supply. Some big conflagration in the Middle East or something.

The hapless Trump even warned of this around 2017 but the German political establishment simply laughed. I hate to use this phrase, but they aren't laughing now!

We could and should have been transitioning to clean renewables decades ago, if the oil companies and their beneficiaries hadn't deliberately stood in the way of faster progress.

They are the eco criminals in all this.

 

[mudsticks]

Imagine @Unkraut if Hesus* came back today .

Who's side do you think he'd be on?

That of the exploitative, ecosystem destroying kleptocracy known as the oil 'industry' and all their hangers on, and profiteers.?

Or would he be supporting those fighting to maintain a livable planet, and diverse, nourishing and flourishing ecosystems for generations to come.?

*For all we know he could already have done so, and have been bundled into the back of a police van, written off as a beardy weirdy, sandal wearing eco-justice loon, for his trouble 🤔

 

[Once a Wheeler]

Imagine @Unkraut if Hesus came back today . Who's side do you think he'd be on? That of the exploitative, ecosystem destroying kleptocracy known as the oil 'industry' and all their hangers on, and profiteers? Or would he be supporting those fighting to maintain a livable planet, and diverse, nourishing and flourishing ecosystems for generations to come?

Thank you, Mudsticks, for a very thought-provoking comment. Many of the founders of new movements such as Jesus, Mohammad, Martin Luther and John Jewel started their careers by declaring that they wish to return from a corrupted present to a state of former purity. As such, this is a biblical approach — the world was created perfect, we have only to return to its original purity to find perfection. In the current debate this comes out as an opinion that oil is the devil and its prohibition is salvation. It is a simplistic approach that may well enable many to act for the good in the current circumstances.

What I find most interesting in your post is '…fighting to maintain a livable planet'. Most people now accept evolution and are aware that the planet was uninhabitable for most of its history. We have evolved during a fortuitous Goldilocks period which has provoked intelligent life. The implication of '…maintain a livable planet' is that we now take control of our planet's evolution and alter it to meet our needs. That means halt the planet's natural evolution which would eventually make it once again uninhabitable regardless of the presence or absence of human-induced climate change. As time goes by, humanity would become a planetary engineer far more influential in its acts than anything we did which lead to CO₂ production. Perhaps this is what we want. Even so, it is an agenda that dwarfs current climate change initiatives. Like those pioneers mentioned above, by getting back to original purity (a pre-industrial atmosphere) we may be unwittingly founding a revolutionary future (geo-engineering). Many thanks for opening up an insight.

 

[mudsticks]

Thank you, Mudsticks, for a very thought-provoking comment. Many of the founders of new movements such as Jesus, Mohammad, Martin Luther and John Jewel started their careers by declaring that they wish to return from a corrupted present to a state of former purity. As such, this is a biblical approach — the world was created perfect, we have only to return to its original purity to find perfection. In the current debate this comes out as an opinion that oil is the devil and its prohibition is salvation. It is a simplistic approach that may well enable many to act for the good in the current circumstances.

What I find most interesting in your post is '…fighting to maintain a livable planet'. Most people now accept evolution and are aware that the planet was uninhabitable for most of its history. We have evolved during a fortuitous Goldilocks period which has provoked intelligent life. The implication of '…maintain a livable planet' is that we now take control of our planet's evolution and alter it to meet our needs. That means halt the planet's natural evolution which would eventually make it once again uninhabitable regardless of the presence or absence of human-induced climate change. As time goes by, humanity would become a planetary engineer far more influential in its acts than anything we did which lead to CO₂ production. Perhaps this is what we want. Even so, it is an agenda that dwarfs current climate change initiatives. Like those pioneers mentioned above, by getting back to original purity (a pre-industrial atmosphere) we may be unwittingly founding a revolutionary future (geo-engineering). Many thanks for opening up an insight.

We are now firmly in the anthropocene era .

Where once we as humans were an integrated part of the ecosystem we are now knowingly and preventably driving extinction and ecosystem collapse through our own profligate, greedy, and selfish actions.

Of course over millions / billions of years there will be changes outside of our control and eventually our sun will implode etc etc.

I'm not talking about trying to engineer our way out of those, although future generations may try do so.
That's up to them.


But none of the above means that we get to choose through our actions or inactions to deprive future generations of a livable planet where they could have enjoyed one, were it not for our neglect.

To me that is morally dissolute.

 

[Unkraut]

You can get a 'sober' assessment from any credible climate scientist.

I haven't really mentioned the science yet. As a non scientist I have to reserve judgement. That the planet is warming is not in dispute. A threat of imminent extinction doesn't seem to be coming from the IPCC, however. It is possible for science to be abuse by vested interests and political agendas by both sceptic and catastrophist alike.

It's not a 'new religion'

I'm not convinced. I mean 'religion' here in much the sense the soviet communism was a kind of religion. Something to provide cameraderie, shared goals, purpose in life beyond the mundane reality of everday life, something outside of and greater than the individual.

There also seems to be kind of occulty New Age mumbo jumbo background to some things in the green movement, worship of Mother Earth or Gaia. 'Spiritual' experiences. Can't say I have looked into it in any detail, though occasionally you get a glimpse of this.

You don't have to have any faith in any kind of fairytale deity.

I don't, nor have I ever met anybody who did!

Your claim that 'activists' are bored rich westerners is quite something.

I'm going by what I see on the telly and to a lesser extent people l met at work. Your people in the global south aren't rich westerners. Also as a matter of observation it struck me a while ago that amongst the young this is overwhelmingly a female proclivity, with Greta for example as prophetess. Almost without exception all interviewees or guests on panel discussions are female. (Today's 12:00 o'clock news was no exception!)

Whether or not this is significant I can't say, but environmentalism seems to have been hitched up to female 'empowerment'. This means it is at least possible that catastrophism is being used as a means to an end. That is somewhat removed from "the science".

Imagine @Unkraut if Hesus* came back today .

Who's side do you think he'd be on?

*For all we know he could already have done so, ...

Society next time round will, amongst others, be characterised by two things: kinky sex and violence. It will be preceeded by a period of trouble (great tribulation) for 7 years the like of which has never been seen nor ever will be again. I don't think it will be possible to miss it.

The judgement/justice of that day will not be about what other people did, it will be personal. Giving account for every careless word uttered, something that ought to concentrate the minds of social media users, leave compaigners, pundits and journalists ... !

 

[mudsticks]

I haven't really mentioned the science yet. As a non scientist I have to reserve judgement. That the planet is warming is not in dispute. A threat of imminent extinction doesn't seem to be coming from the IPCC, however. It is possible for science to be abuse by vested interests and political agendas by both sceptic and catastrophist alike.

I'm not convinced. I mean 'religion' here in much the sense the soviet communism was a kind of religion. Something to provide cameraderie, shared goals, purpose in life beyond the mundane reality of everday life, something outside of and greater than the individual.

There also seems to be kind of occulty New Age mumbo jumbo background to some things in the green movement, worship of Mother Earth or Gaia. 'Spiritual' experiences. Can't say I have looked into it in any detail, though occasionally you get a glimpse of this.

I don't, nor have I ever met anybody who did!

I'm going by what I see on the telly and to a lesser extent people l met at work. Your people in the global south aren't rich westerners. Also as a matter of observation it struck me a while ago that amongst the young this is overwhelmingly a female proclivity, with Greta for example as prophetess. Almost without exception all interviewees or guests on panel discussions are female. (Today's 12:00 o'clock news was no exception!)

Whether or not this is significant I can't say, but environmentalism seems to have been hitched up to female 'empowerment'. This means it is at least possible that catastrophism is being used as a means to an end. That is somewhat removed from "the science".

Society next time round will, amongst others, be characterised by two things: kinky sex and violence. It will be preceeded by a period of trouble (great tribulation) for 7 years the like of which has never been seen nor ever will be again. I don't think it will be possible to miss it.

The judgement/justice of that day will not be about what other people did, it will be personal. Giving account for every careless word uttered, something that ought to concentrate the minds of social media users, leave compaigners, pundits and journalists ... !

It's not overwhelming female among the young it's about half and half in my direct experience.

The fact that we are hearing strong female voices on all this too is a good thing surely ??

I don't think that caring about others, about the future, about ecosystems, the bigger picture etc is in anyway limited to the female, but it is something women feel very strongly about.
And thank goodness for that.

Do you not approve of female empowerment??

If not, what a queer position to take.

Ps if you think kinky sex and violence weren't a feature of times of yore, you really haven't been reading your Bible very carefully. 😱

 

[Ian H]

The implication of '…maintain a livable planet' is that we now take control of our planet's evolution and alter it to meet our needs. That means halt the planet's natural evolution...

It isn't. It merely means trying not to speed up processes which will make the planet uninhabitable in the foreseeable future. The processes being addressed are the ones caused by human activity.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

There also seems to be kind of occulty New Age mumbo jumbo background to some things in the green movement, worship of Mother Earth or Gaia. 'Spiritual' experiences

Yes, much more sensible to stick to the science. There's very few dissenting from the consensus that the world is warming and it's due to human activity.
Gaia/Mother Earth etc - about as plausible as God and his mysterious ways.

Alternatively, we could just start quoting different occulty mumbo jumbo.

Society next time round will, amongst others, be characterised by two things: kinky sex and violence. It will be preceeded by a period of trouble (great tribulation) for 7 years the like of which has never been seen nor ever will be again. I don't think it will be possible to miss it.

The judgement/justice of that day will not be about what other people did, it will be personal. Giving account for every careless word uttered, something that ought to concentrate the minds of social media users, leave compaigners, pundits and journalists ... !

 

[mudsticks]

Yes, much more sensible to stick to the science. There's very few dissenting from the consensus that the world is warming and it's due to human activity.
Gaia/Mother Earth etc - about as plausible as God and his mysterious ways.

Alternatively, we could just start quoting different occulty mumbo jumbo.

People use terms such as Gaia and mother earth primarily in allegorical terms to remind us of our human dependency on these life systems

Yes some find a kind of 'spiritual fulfilment' in the wonders of life giving nature too.

As an agriculturalist I'm slightly less 'breathy' about it all being a one way generosity on the part of nature.
I see us as ideally bing an integrated part of the whole

Not to say I eschew sustainable and appropriate tech and knowledge application, in any way, it's just got to be renewable, and regenerative, for the sake of future generations.

 

[newfhouse]

Yes, much more sensible to stick to the science. There's very few dissenting from the consensus that the world is warming and it's due to human activity.
Gaia/Mother Earth etc - about as plausible as God and his mysterious ways.

Exactly, in much the same way as it being possible to live a decent life without needing the fear of divine retribution to stop us thieving and murdering.