COP26: All talk or some real action on climate change?

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stowie

Active Member
It may not need to be.

Population growth is slowing overall, and is predicted to stop by the end of the century.

It's almost inevitable a decline will follow, leading some statisticians to assert that we are heading in the long term for extinction.

Apparently, once a trend is set, it's very hard to reverse it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline

Hans Rosling had a great presentation on population growth - not sure if it is on YouTube or something.

Essentially, it appears that the main driver for population growth at the moment is people living longer, not fertility rates.

Fertility rates in almost all parts of the world outside sub-saharan Africa have been dropping sharply.

As @mudsticks mentions, the best way to reduce fertility rates is for improvements in health, education and opportunities especially for women. It has been the case in Europe, Asia and Latin America, and such a marked drop that places like Brazil have dropped from around 3 to 1.7 children per woman, which is starting to create issues of its own (or at least a societal change). South Korea has dropped to around 0.9.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
That's a fairly 'easy' one to resolve.
Education and empowerment of women.

Free access to birth control

If that were to be 'allowed' and encouraged in certain cultures .

But the birth rate is falling anyhow.

Plus it's not the overall number of people , so much as their consumption.

Obv we in the west consume / pollute many times more than those in less industrialised and profligate nations.

I like "easy wins".
 

stowie

Active Member
Three reasons, I think.

It’s part of a war against them. If ‘they’ can do this, what will be next?
Sadiq Khan is the devil incarnate.
And the smallest group, their old car will incur the charge.

Reading local facebook groups, anyone would think the ULEZ has suddenly been thrust upon Londoners with no pre-warning.

Which I know is wrong. When I bought my car over 3 years ago, I made sure it was compliant with ULEZ, so we have had at least over 3 years notice.

It doesn't help when some of the idiots that "moderate" some of the groups fundamentally misunderstood the scheme and have been giving out wrong information for years. One thought it only applied to Lorries for reasons I could never understand, and no amount of proof otherwise seemed to shake his belief. I assume he will be utterly confused when he starts getting fines.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
To be effective Population Control needs to apply to the West first and foremost as a single Western person consumes so much more of everything. So that's not going to happen anytime soon.

IMHO, it is not a single bullet solution. Why can we not have several strands, ie Population Control, reduced consumption, etc. I only mentioned Population Control because it appears to be ignored now.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Reading local facebook groups, anyone would think the ULEZ has suddenly been thrust upon Londoners with no pre-warning.

Which I know is wrong. When I bought my car over 3 years ago, I made sure it was compliant with ULEZ, so we have had at least over 3 years notice.

It doesn't help when some of the idiots that "moderate" some of the groups fundamentally misunderstood the scheme and have been giving out wrong information for years. One thought it only applied to Lorries for reasons I could never understand, and no amount of proof otherwise seemed to shake his belief. I assume he will be utterly confused when he starts getting fines.

Yes, this in spades. We have a Motorhome (LEZ Compliant), it amazes me how many people ask "will I have to pay if I enter LEZ", on various Motorhome forums. They are on the Internet (because they are asking in a forum), there is a perfectly good, usable website which will answer the question accurately, all they have to do is enter their vehicle Registration Number.
 

mudsticks

Squire
IMHO, it is not a single bullet solution. Why can we not have several strands, ie Population Control, reduced consumption, etc. I only mentioned Population Control because it appears to be ignored now.

Of course we can, it has to be multistranded.
Consumption, energy usage, travel, food, education, shelter, farming, biodiversity, ecology..

All of it.
There's no one thing on its own that wil do it..

Population is not mentioned so often , in part because it is already happening, birthrate is declining.

Especially in those countries with higher per capita carbon outputs, and consumption of resources.

But there is also a slight cultural pushback.
Partly on religious grounds.

But also in countries where marriage, and childbearing are still enmeshed with a woman's status, security, and care in older age.

Even if I'd been born fifty years earlier, in this country, its highly unlikely that I'd have had the same level of education, employment opportunities, or expectations, economic autonomy, lack of pressure to be married, general life chances, or even control over my own fertility.

i chose to stop at two kids, because that was 'enough' and I had other equally fulfilling things to do with my time.

i didn't feel pressured in any way to have more.

Of course many women happily choose to have more, no problem, because there are some who choose not to have children at all.


There are plenty of ways to have a good life, kids or not..


But not all women get the same chances to be free, self supporting, and autonomous in all the ways that i do.


But the 'only' reasons they don't are social economic and cultural.

its not inevitable, that women should be treated as second class citizens , whose primary function is to serve the domestic needs of others, and to bear children.

Sadly that is still seen as the case, in many parts of the world.
.
 
Yes, this in spades. We have a Motorhome (LEZ Compliant), it amazes me how many people ask "will I have to pay if I enter LEZ", on various Motorhome forums. They are on the Internet (because they are asking in a forum), there is a perfectly good, usable website which will answer the question accurately, all they have to do is enter their vehicle Registration Number.

AIUI there are two different LEZs or rather and LEZ and a ULEZ.

One covers pretty much the whole of Greater London and applies to larger diesel vehicles. Although its primary target is commercial vehicles it catches some motorhomes, crew cabs etc.

The other is the ULEZ which, until today, was co-terminous with the congestion charging zone. It's now extended to, but does not include, the North and South Circular Roads. Vehicles affected are non Euro 6 diesels (roughly pre 2015) and older petrols pre approx. 2005.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone
 

mudsticks

Squire
I hope that’s all it is, but when otherwise intelligent people say that they’re bored with all the current focus on climate change it gets a bit dispiriting. It’s mostly the same people that say they are bored with C19, somehow thinking that the effects of these things will decline if we stop paying attention.

A bit like kids who think if they cover their eyes..you can't see them :rolleyes:

Tbh I'm probs one of the most boredest of all with climate change..

We could have sorted all this years ago, if enough people had been paying attention .

I'm proper fed up, it's still going on..

As the placard says

"I can't believe I still have to protest this sh*t"
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Of course we can, it has to be multistranded.
Consumption, energy usage, travel, food, education, shelter, farming, biodiversity, ecology..

All of it.
There's no one thing on its own that wil do it..

Population is not mentioned so often , in part because it is already happening, birthrate is declining.

Especially in those countries with higher per capita carbon outputs, and consumption of resources.

But there is also a slight cultural pushback.
Partly on religious grounds.

But also in countries where marriage, and childbearing are still enmeshed with a woman's status, security, and care in older age.

Even if I'd been born fifty years earlier, in this country, its highly unlikely that I'd have had the same level of education, employment opportunities, or expectations, economic autonomy, lack of pressure to be married, general life chances, or even control over my own fertility.

i chose to stop at two kids, because that was 'enough' and I had other equally fulfilling things to do with my time.

i didn't feel pressured in any way to have more.

Of course many women happily choose to have more, no problem, because there are some who choose not to have children at all.


There are plenty of ways to have a good life, kids or not..


But not all women get the same chances to be free, self supporting, and autonomous in all the ways that i do.


But the 'only' reasons they don't are social economic and cultural.

its not inevitable, that women should be treated as second class citizens , whose primary function is to serve the domestic needs of others, and to bear children.

Sadly that is still seen as the case, in many parts of the world.
.

Oh dear! we agree on something ;)
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
AIUI there are two different LEZs or rather and LEZ and a ULEZ.

One covers pretty much the whole of Greater London and applies to larger diesel vehicles. Although its primary target is commercial vehicles it catches some motorhomes, crew cabs etc.

The other is the ULEZ which, until today, was co-terminous with the congestion charging zone. It's now extended to, but does not include, the North and South Circular Roads. Vehicles affected are non Euro 6 diesels (roughly pre 2015) and older petrols pre approx. 2005.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone

Quite.

Our car, and Motorhome are Euro 6 Compliant.

Maybe we should change the rules, don't want that pesky "Euro" in OUR rules ;)
 
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