COP26: All talk or some real action on climate change?

[matticus]

@matticus
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Goodnight x

If I had a private plane, I'd probably fly every day too.

 

[mjr]

If I had a private plane, I'd probably fly every day too.

I have a private bike and ride almost every day, which supports this theory. I share a car and don't drive every day: more evidence!

Maybe we should ban private ownership of all combustion vehicles? You can rent or share and that's all. It would get a lot of uneconomic cars off the roads eventually. Most hire companies would sell them abroad or recycle them, rather than run them at a loss.

 

[Unkraut]

Is there any evidence - scientific or political - to date at the conference that anybody has shoved the climate crisis up their ar** yet?

 

[mjr]

Is there any evidence - scientific or political - to date at the conference that anybody has shoved the climate crisis up their ar** yet?

Quite the opposite, in fact: today's report of a 2½°c rise suggests that the conference has well and truly buggered the climate crisis. https://www.reuters.com/business/co...ing-after-latest-pledges-analysts-2021-11-09/

 

[Fab Foodie]

It's the doing that's the problem. Merkel for one. Let me give you another concrete example. Ms Activist (20-ish) being interviewed about the climate conference comes out and says 'all new Autobahns and repairs should stop at once'. Emoting rather than thinking, driven by fear leading to a panicked reaction. What are you going to do with all the unemployed as a result of this, let alone putting the boot into the car industry?

There may be (is!) masses of hot air being emitted by politicians, but that (unemployment) is a good reason not to allow teenagers to start getting their hands on policy. I'm not knocking them for being concerned about their futures, but there needs to be some balance here.

I gave up on the leaked e-mails years ago, but I could have told you within days of them being released that sooner or later they would be safely discounted, nothing to see here move on. Can't unread them though. Everything that might even slightly qualify the narrative is "refuted".

I was even assured in a previous NACA incarnation that the predictions of a possible new ice age in the 70's had been "refuted". Trouble is, I am old enough to remember them. Didn't take them particularly seriously, but we mustn't ever allow the impression that scientists could ever get this kind of thing wrong, let alone be lacking in integrity.

Glad am not alone in remembering the Ice age scare! But if the Atlantic conveyor stops it’s still a possibility.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Is there any evidence - scientific or political - to date at the conference that anybody has shoved the climate crisis up their ar** yet?

Well the sun’s still shining out of mine….

 

[mjr]

It's the doing that's the problem. Merkel for one. Let me give you another concrete example. Ms Activist (20-ish) being interviewed about the climate conference comes out and says 'all new Autobahns and repairs should stop at once'. Emoting rather than thinking, driven by fear leading to a panicked reaction. What are you going to do with all the unemployed as a result of this, let alone putting the boot into the car industry?

Who the fark knows? Maybe their next jobs will be in cyber, but they should switch away from climate-damaging jobs and better sooner than later, no?

What evidence is there that it was emoting rather than thinking? I'm assuming Ms Activist holds no government ministry, so cannot make this happen "at once", so it sounds like an attempt to move the Overton Window on transport policy.

There may be (is!) masses of hot air being emitted by politicians, but that (unemployment) is a good reason not to allow teenagers to start getting their hands on policy. I'm not knocking them for being concerned about their futures, but there needs to be some balance here.

In the long term, an erratic climate will result in far more hardship than a deliberate redirection of part of the economy. Any resulting unemployment will affect teenagers more than us, and if you expect politicians to be thinking, have a good grip on policy and be balanced, well, you'd be very disappointed by many UK governments of the last 50 years!

The key question really is do we want to try to address this problem proactively, or do we want leave future generations to react to increasing problems and curse us? And if we do become more energy-efficient and it turns out to all have been for nothing, would that be so awful?

 

[Archie_tect]

As the value of doing things which prevents catastrophe can't be measured, but the cost of not doing things most certainly will, it's our responsibility to do the hard things now
... except we won't because of the hassle it requires and all the politicians who have more important things on their agenda, like re-election.

 

[mjr]

As the value of doing things which prevents catastrophe can't be measured, but the cost of not doing things most certainly will, it's our responsibility to do the hard things now
... except we won't because of the hassle it requires and all the politicians who have more important things on their agenda, like re-election.

But politicians making the tough changes at mayoral level are being reelected with increased majorities, such as Hidalgo in Paris (with an increased majority), or Ada Colau in Barcelona. When will national politicians notice that greening may get noisy/whiny in the press but it's successful at the ballot box?

 

[Fab Foodie]

But politicians making the tough changes at mayoral level are being reelected with increased majorities, such as Hidalgo in Paris (with an increased majority), or Ada Colau in Barcelona. When will national politicians notice that greening may get noisy/whiny in the press but it's successful at the ballot box?

And let’s face it, as the last negotiators leave Glasgow, the climate will rapidly drop from the front pages and it will be business as usual….

 

[mudsticks]

Having just spent the best part of two weeks at the COP.
I'd say there's a tiny bit of room for optimism.

But most of this action, and energy is going to have to come from ciivil society groups, working together with strong intent.

Or at least they're going to be the ones putting continuous pressure on big government and big corporations.
Yes individual action is a way of showing intent .

But 'green consumerism' is a bit of a distraction, and implies we can just buy our way out of this..

Things to like 'Net Zero' where that involves trading the burning of old carbon (fossil fuels) against creation of new carbon (tree planting) need to be recognised for what they are.

As the excuse for 'business as usual' which won't get us out of all this.

Yes biomass stores carbon, but it's not an excuse for extracting and burning more oil coal and gas.
There's only so many trees we can plant, peatlands that we can restore.

We've just got to transition away from fossil fuels, and do it fast.

Which could of course create a lot of jobs, in the medium term..

But eventually why not aspire to a four day week so we could all have a better work life balance, use less energy, and slow down the massive capitalistic growth on property prices (for example)

in my own sector of 'sustainable' agriculture, it's noticeable how the bigger players have started to move into our territory in terms of language.

Which is good in some ways, I suppose as at least they've noticed.

But the techno fixes offered such as 'climate smart agriculture' is another of these cool sounding ideas, which when you dissect it turns out to be another 'false fix' put forward by big agriculture wanting to retain or increase their market share.

It consolidates ownership and control in fewer and fewer hands, doesnt encourage biodiversity, or ensure that people get fed.


Anyway, we've got to keep working on all this.
Not give up hope.

But politicians making the tough changes at mayoral level are being reelected with increased majorities, such as Hidalgo in Paris (with an increased majority), or Ada Colau in Barcelona. When will national politicians notice that greening may get noisy/whiny in the press but it's successful at the ballot box?

I really hope you're right about the majority of the electorate being sensible over all this..

And that could be upscaled to national government level.
The big polluting businesses have so much lobbying power though

But it is noticeable over the last few years, that more generalised acceptance that climate change is real, it's hear and it's now, and that we've got to get our big girl pants on and do something pdq, to at least start to slow down, and start to stabilise.

Best crack on...

 

[BoldonLad]

And let’s face it, as the last negotiators leave Glasgow, the climate will rapidly drop from the front pages and it will be business as usual….

It is already being pushed down “the list” by Megan and her father.

 

[Fab Foodie]

It is already being pushed down “the list” by Megan and her father.

But like, that’s OK, because that’s like real innit?

 

[BoldonLad]

But like, that’s OK, because that’s like real innit?

Don’t know about real, but, it is vitally important (not). IMHO.

 

[matticus]

And let’s face it, as the last negotiators leave Glasgow, the climate will rapidly drop from the front pages and it will be business as usual….

Well, sort of:


BREAKING: Yet ANOTHER city has announced a new “car-free zone” across their city centre. Glasgow, Scotland will restrict motor vehicles except public transport over 5 years as part of a strategy to "give public spaces back to the people.”

So who’s next? https://t.co/TmEXoTKldW