Cruella Braverman...

[Bromptonaut]

What is someone 'up in arms' over the latest atrocities bestowed on people by the government called then as a matter of interest?

I'm sure you can do your own research....

 

[Deleted member 28]

I'm sure you can do your own research....

I call them Wokeys.

 

[Cirrus]

What is someone 'up in arms' over the latest atrocities bestowed on people by the government called then as a matter of interest?

They are still gammon, just red rather than blue

 

[Deleted member 28]

They are still gammon, just red rather than blue

Nice one, I'll be using that one.

 

[newfhouse]

I’d rather be a Kath than a Nigel.

 

[mudsticks]

I’d rather be a Kath than a Nigel.

View attachment 2756

I've yet to get a clear answer out of those who use 'woke' as a perjorative, as to what they actually mean.

As far as I can see they're trying to deride those who are interested in having a fuller awareness and understanding of issues, and of other humans beings.

To me opposite of 'woke' is just 'weak' weak minded at least.

I'm 100% with Kathy on this one.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I've yet to get a clear answer out of those who use 'woke' as a perjorative, as to what they actually mean.

As far as I can see they're trying to deride those who are interested in having a fuller awareness and understanding of issues, and of other humans beings.

To me opposite of 'woke' is just 'weak' weak minded at least.

I'm 100% with Kathy on this one.

I have only one concern over the term 'woke' and that is the implication that everyone else is asleep, or that the user of the phrase has been asleep but is now 'woke'. Sometimes people just have differing viewpoints of the same issue...and they are just differing viewpoints.
I don't like the term being used as either an insult or a badge of honour where there is just a hint of condescension in its use.
One either thinks some beliefs/attitudes/actions are wrong or they are not...nothing to do with being 'woke'.

 

[newfhouse]

I have only one concern over the term 'woke'

That’s a relief.

and that is the implication that everyone else is asleep, or that the user of the phrase has been asleep but is now 'woke'. Sometimes people just have differing viewpoints of the same issue...and they are just differing viewpoints.

You don’t think there is ever deliberate sleepiness, conscious unconsciousness if you will?

I don't like the term being used as either an insult or a badge of honour where there is just a hint of condescension in its use.

What if the alternative is dishonourable?

One either thinks some beliefs/attitudes/actions are wrong or they are not...nothing to do with being 'woke'.

Like privilege, progressive, left, right, misogynist, fascist, socialist, do-gooder, gammon, and all the rest, woke as a term is capable of being wilfully misunderstood, weaponised, or used as an insult. But words are all we have, so what’s the alternative?

 

[BoldonLad]

I have only one concern over the term 'woke' and that is the implication that everyone else is asleep, or that the user of the phrase has been asleep but is now 'woke'. Sometimes people just have differing viewpoints of the same issue...and they are just differing viewpoints.
I don't like the term being used as either an insult or a badge of honour where there is just a hint of condescension in its use.
One either thinks some beliefs/attitudes/actions are wrong or they are not...nothing to do with being 'woke'.

Sounds very reasonable. Similar logic to why other group terms (snowflake, gammon, etc etc) are unhelpful perhaps.

 

[mudsticks]

I have only one concern over the term 'woke' and that is the implication that everyone else is asleep, or that the user of the phrase has been asleep but is now 'woke'. Sometimes people just have differing viewpoints of the same issue...and they are just differing viewpoints.
I don't like the term being used as either an insult or a badge of honour where there is just a hint of condescension in its use.
One either thinks some beliefs/attitudes/actions are wrong or they are not...nothing to do with being 'woke'.

I'm not aware that anyone ever using the phrase 'woke' to give themselves honour.

It was only when people who object to anything remotely progressive started using it as a supposed perjorative that it was turned back on the people who were trying (rather dimwittedly) to use it as an insult.

It was only then that people started asking what was wrong with being 'woke' in the first place, as the alternative 'asleep' or unaware doesn't exactly seem like the greatest accolade.

offering different 'viewpoints' is one thing.

Just trying to insult people for being socially aware, but with no counterpoint as to why they shouldn't be, is just childish name calling with no substance, or reasoning behind it.

I fear the problem stems from certain sections of society being asked to think about anyone outside of their own group, These people who hitherto were 'allowed' to say whatever they liked, about whoever they liked..

 

[Fab Foodie]

That’s a relief.


You don’t think there is ever deliberate sleepiness, conscious unconsciousness if you will?


What if the alternative is dishonourable?


Like privilege, progressive, left, right, misogynist, fascist, socialist, do-gooder, gammon, and all the rest, woke as a term is capable of being wilfully misunderstood, weaponised, or used as an insult. But words are all we have, so what’s the alternative?

FIGHT!

 

[mudsticks]

FIGHT!

Careful now .
I'm packing some BIG tractor energy today

🚜🙄

Taking advantage of a quiet period to resurface the yard.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I'm not aware that anyone ever using the phrase 'woke' to give themselves honour.

It was only when people who object to anything remotely progressive started using it as a supposed perjorative that it was turned back on the people who were trying (rather dimwittedly) to use it as an insult.

It was only then that people started asking what was wrong with being 'woke' in the first place, as the alternative 'asleep' or unaware doesn't exactly seem like the greatest accolade.

offering different 'viewpoints' is one thing.

Just trying to insult people for being socially aware, but with no counterpoint as to why they shouldn't be, is just childish name calling with no substance, or reasoning behind it.

I fear the problem stems from certain sections of society being asked to think about anyone outside of their own group, These people who hitherto were 'allowed' to say whatever they liked, about whoever they liked..

Whether it started off as pejorative and was then taken on as the opposite does not really matter, and as I said, I do not like it being used as an insult. Its current use is more relevant.

The problem with describing people as socially aware is the assumption that people who don't agree are socially unaware, when in fact they may just have a different view of what is socially correct or desirable.

I have my views of what is socially or morally correct in different scenarios, or indeed in looking at past history, but in anything other than a very small number of absolutes am wary of assuming that my views are absolutely or primarily right

 

[BoldonLad]

Whether it started off as pejorative and was then taken on as the opposite does not really matter, and as I said, I do not like it being used as an insult. Its current use is more relevant.

The problem with describing people as socially aware is the assumption that people who don't agree are socially unaware, when in fact they may just have a different view of what is socially correct or desirable.

I have my views of what is socially or morally correct in different scenarios, or indeed in looking at past history, but in anything other than a very small number of absolutes am wary of assuming that my views are absolutely or primarily right

If only that were a more widely used approach.

 

[Rusty Nails]

You don’t think there is ever deliberate sleepiness, conscious unconsciousness if you will?

Of course there is. That's why I used the word 'sometimes'.

What if the alternative is dishonourable?

Alternative for what? As you say below words are all we have.

Like privilege, progressive, left, right, misogynist, fascist, socialist, do-gooder, gammon, and all the rest, woke as a term is capable of being wilfully misunderstood, weaponised, or used as an insult. But words are all we have, so what’s the alternative?

The alternative is to accept that any words we use pejoratively may not be the best ones, may be open to misuse, and may in fact reflect our own biases.

There are very few absolutes in political, social or moral debate.