Cut parents benefits over school truancy

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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Well no, obviously not, but it's a lot easier to become addicted to alcohol or tobacco.

Not saying you are wrong, but, a little puzzled (not difficult for me) as to exactly what you mean

- do you mean it is easier because these substances are readily available in the high street etc

or

- do you mean that a higher proportion of people who use alcohol and/or tobacco become addicted to those substances, than the proportion of users who become addicted to other drugs
 
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D

Deleted member 28

Guest
but it's a lot easier to become addicted to alcohol or tobacco.

I'm not really convinced by that one, admittedly you may have more experience than me in these matters.

I can't see how it's as easy to get hold of class A drugs for the average joe than it is to go and buy a pint?

Again correct me if I'm wrong but it's portrayed that you can become addicted to things like crack or spice with very few 'sessions' whereas I frequently drink far more than what's considered healthy but if I wanted to stop for a few weeks I can, in fact I'm on call 1 week in 5 so don't drink at all during that week.

All this admittedly is speculation on my behalf but I would wager more people on here would know where to buy a beer from compared with getting hold of a bag of heroin.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
I agree, if addicts can get access to clean needles it can only be a good thing but I'll never be persuaded that even in a 'controlled' environment becoming addicted to heroine or coke can be anything other than a bad thing.
I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise?
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
Not saying you are wrong, but, a little puzzled (not difficult for me) as to exactly what you mean

- do you mean it is easier because these substances are readily available in the high street etc

or

- do you mean that a higher proportion of people who use alcohol and/or tobacco become addicted to those substances, than the proportion of users who become addicted to other drugs

Mostly the first, but also a little of the latter.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
I'm not really convinced by that one, admittedly you may have more experience than me in these matters.

I can't see how it's as easy to get hold of class A drugs for the average joe than it is to go and buy a pint?

Again correct me if I'm wrong but it's portrayed that you can become addicted to things like crack or spice with very few 'sessions' whereas I frequently drink far more than what's considered healthy but if I wanted to stop for a few weeks I can, in fact I'm on call 1 week in 5 so don't drink at all during that week.

All this admittedly is speculation on my behalf but I would wager more people on here would know where to buy a beer from compared with getting hold of a bag of heroin.

I feel like we're saying the same thing here?

Albeit I disagree that it's not easy to become addicted to legal substances remarkably easy, if you have an addictive personality for example.
 
D

Deleted member 28

Guest
I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise?

Surely making it legal to take class A drugs is somewhat condoning it and therefore not really sending out a message that it's a bad thing to do?

We might just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
Do you have any actual evidence for that, because, initial thought is, I find that very hard to believe, in general.

Well, considering there are more people who consume alcohol and tobacco than other drugs, you can't really compare accurately.

That said, there are many people who don't believe they have a problem with either and drink way more than they should without realising it. And as for smoking, which I do, all the medical evidence says that it's terrible for your health and yet folk do it anyway.

It's a pretty tricky cycle, having a drink to fend off a hangover can quickly become a problem. And nicotine withdrawal is an absolute bugger to overcome.

I suppose my point in all of this is that alcohol and tobacco are just as addictive as other drugs, but because they're socially acceptable the addiction is ignored. I'd put caffeine in that category too.
 
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theclaud

Reading around the chip
Surely making it legal to take class A drugs is somewhat condoning it and therefore not really sending out a message that it's a bad thing to do?

We might just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Moral judgements are at best useless and at worst counterproductive when it comes to public health policy.
 
D

Deleted member 28

Guest
Moral judgements are at best useless and at worst counterproductive when it comes to public health policy.

Ok, forget morals for a minute, can you provide any positives for becoming a Heroine addict?
 

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
I agree, if addicts can get access to clean needles it can only be a good thing but I'll never be persuaded that even in a 'controlled' environment becoming addicted to heroine or coke can be anything other than a bad thing.

The controlled environments are for people who are already addicts, they don’t facilitate people becoming addicts.
 

qigong chimp

Settler of gobby hash.
I agree, if addicts can get access to clean needles it can only be a good thing but I'll never be persuaded that even in a 'controlled' environment becoming addicted to heroine or coke can be anything other than a bad thing.

And yet it's love of money - not heroin or coke - which is the root of all evil.
 

multitool

Shaman
The war on drugs hasn't worked. People will always get off their faces, even in puritanical countries with death sentences attaches to alcohol/drug possession/dealing.

The problem with criminalising drugs are manifold. Otherwise decent people are, by definition, criminals. For an extreme view, look at incarceration rates in US....life, for a bit of weed. People wishing to use illegal drugs are forced to engage with criminals, sometimes leading to greater criminality and social harm.
Criminalising drugs leads to greater harm to the user and greater social harms. A crack/heroin addict (unless they have rich parents/trust fund) has to engage in criminality to fund their illegal habit. Women can be forced into prostitution as well as theft and burglary, making them far more likely to use up police resources, CJS resources and scarce prison resources. They also neglect their health in other ways, not eating properly leading to an expensive burden on the NHS.

An addict can often live a healthy, legal, purposeful and socially useful life IF a clean source of their chosen fix was available though cheap and legal channels.

Personally, I think hard drugs should be available on prescription from GPs, with attendant monitoring and healthcare. Certainly the overall cost would be way less than the current situation.

Privately, most if not all senior police agree, but the only thing preventing progress are reactionary attitudes from people who haven't done the thinking.
 
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