EU & Brexit Bunker

[BoldonLad]

What happens next... would be kinda interesting, don't you think? The EU, miraculously, still a major trading bloc, is still only 22 miles away. And, if you hadn't noticed, Starmer's been accused of surrender and betrayal, so it seems the Bexiters are still as obsessed as they ever were with our neighbours.

Well, Reform are having a groundswell of support (allegedly) for their support of an allegedly popular stance on immigration, coincidentally (perhaps) they were the Brexit party.

If rejoining EU was a popular view, wouldn't we expect to see a groundswell of support for a party who supported this? As far as I know, the nearest to this stance is Lib-Dem, but, even they are saying merely that it is a "long term strategy".

Sadly, I don't see any popular desire to rejoin.

 

[Xipe Totec]

So, democracy now means ignoring the wishes of the majority in a yes / no vote?

We give more credence to the votes of those who are in the minority than the majority?. Not sure that works

I honestly wish I'd made a note of which Tory politician it was, participating in a discussion here in Scotland, where 62% of the electorate voted to remain in the EU, when challenged with that statistic, affected surprise and mild outrage (confected? Who can say?) and indignantly responded - "38% is a lot of people, you know!"

 

[Psamathe]

And how well do you think the views of you and your constituency are represented in Parliament?

I have written to my MP several times since he was elected (last GE) and he has forwarded my concerns to relevant authorities who have responded and in some cases still considering. So he is certainly representing me in Westminster. And that's all our democratic system gives us. We don't elect a Government, don't elect a PM, just our own constituency MP.

Hence my comment in response to

Tell me which General Election had any realistic prospect of any party winning other than the main two?

in that. "winning" can only be a local constituency thing as that's all we get to bote on.

Ian

 

[Shortfall]

You might have noticed that I'm not reheating the stuff about the vote itself. As people say, it's in the past.

Tbh I stopped reading it quite soon after the result came in. I was in a minority of probably less than half a dozen on BR (Me, Stevo, Coopster?) who wasn't a Remainer and our views weren't very well received (see also virtually every other thread in Cake stop 😂). I don't suppose I'll be lurking in this thread for the same reason but knock yourselves out.

Edit Stevo was a Remainer before the referendum as I recall?

 

[Pblakeney]

Great invention there. No one here has suggested that there can not be another vote

Except that what we had will never be on offer again, and what will be on the table will be unacceptable. Joining the Euro for example.
Effectively I doubt there will be another vote in my lifetime.

 

[briantrumpet]

Tbh I stopped reading it quite soon after the result came in. I was in a minority of probably less than half a dozen on BR (Me, Stevo, Coopster?) who wasn't a Remainer and our views weren't very well received (see also virtually every other thread in Cake stop 😂). I don't suppose I'll be lurking in this thread for the same reason but knock yourselves out.

Edit Stevo was a Remainer before the referendum as I recall?

That's fine - I've no interest in football or cars, so I started two threads in CS for them specifically so I could avoid them. Others seemed to appreciate them though. There's a good 'ignore thread' function on here, so you can avoid having your feed polluted by things you want to avoid.

 

[spen666]

Except that what we had will never be on offer again, and what will be on the table will be unacceptable. Joining the Euro for example.
Effectively I doubt there will be another vote in my lifetime.

If you want it, then campaign for it. No one is stopping you

 

[CXRAndy]

Except that what we had will never be on offer again, and what will be on the table will be unacceptable. Joining the Euro for example.
Effectively I doubt there will be another vote in my lifetime.

The way things are going I doubt there will be a UK in what's left of your lifetime

 

[Pblakeney]

If you want it, then campaign for it. No one is stopping you

You completely missed my point.
We will NOT be joining the EU in my lifetime as the conditions would be unacceptable so campaigning is pointless.

 

[Stevo 666]

How active are you in the farming and fishing communities? Are you a member of many economic forums?
How many touring musician groups do you frequent? Are you also busy in the student community?
What about the energy sector - are you involved in those forums too?

Or

Is it just possible that you are only hearing people "whine" about it on obscure cycling forums because that is where you go for conversation?

When I said above that most people don't care any more, your list includes some of the minority who maybe still care (not that it will make any difference). But its definitely not most people, is it? Hence my point.

 

[Stevo 666]

Yes. The way it works is like this.

You ask the population what they want. They vote for a Conservative Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Conservative Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Conservative Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Conservative Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Labour Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Labour Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Labour Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Conservative Government.
5 years later you ask again. They want a Labour Government.

However...
If you ask them what they want as regards Europe in 1975 you absolutely should never ask the people again.
Asking them again 40 years later is a terrible thing. But we did it anyway. In spite of the verdict being void due to breaches of electoral law and only being advisory, not binding and not being a significant majority decision, the Govt acted on it anyway.
But of course asking the people again, another 10 years later given the very adverse effects on the UK is an abolute no no and anti-democratic

If not asking people what they want is not allowed because it might be bad for the country, why do we allow people to vote Labour every 5 years? And who gets to decide what is 'bad'?

 

[Xipe Totec]

The way things are going I doubt there will be a UK in what's left of your lifetime

You mean you think the Union will break up? Absolutely never going to happen.

 

[secretsqirrel]

When I said above that most people don't care any more, your list includes some of the minority who maybe still care (not that it will make any difference). But its definitely not most people, is it? Hence my point.

I did ask before but you keep saying ‘most people don’t care’. What is that based on?

 

[briantrumpet]

Chris Grey long-windedly pointing out (amongst other things) that the Gibraltar agreement marks the last bit of the withdrawal agreement to be agreed. He also opines that

... the overall point is that this emerging Brexit ‘phase’ is going to be characterised by a whole series of highly technical negotiations in various, often discrete, policy areas. Of course that was also true in previous times, but the difference now is that they will not be held within a single, even if complex, process. No doubt there will be some overall political coordination, in both the UK and the EU, but it won’t be like the Article 50 process. Nor is there likely to be the same level of media interest, and there certainly won’t be the kind of parliamentary attention (one of the criticisms, even from those who welcome it in principle, of the Gibraltar agreement is that, like post-Brexit trade deals, it will be subject to almost no parliamentary scrutiny).

So I suspect that it is going to be quite difficult to keep track of developments. It will probably require paying attention to the specialist trade media in particular sectors, and perhaps to periodic howls of rage from Brexiters when they realize what is happening (such howls should be a reminder, to ‘remainers’, that there is a genuine, if limited, anti-Brexit agenda within Labour’s policy). There will also be some specific public moments, such as future summits, meetings of the various bodies set up by the Withdrawal Agreement and the TCA, and, as regards the TCA specifically, its own scheduled operational review in 2026.

He's always worth a read for the detailed stuff.

 

[icowden]

If not asking people what they want is not allowed because it might be bad for the country, why do we allow people to vote Labour every 5 years? And who gets to decide what is 'bad'?

Good questions all. It just seems to be that the media moguls and politicians seem to think that the idea of another referendum is "bad" and "not democratic", whilst general elections are "good" and "normal".

Maybe someone is profiting from this Brexit lark?