Finally really good news...

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I'm no expert but I imagine you'd spend some of the 10bn on hiring some surveyors and architects and the like to make sure you did it properly.

In fact if you look at the IB website...



Assuming that you are, with your in depth knowledge on the subject of 'mouldew', a member of said industry, why don't you volunteer to help? You could really make a difference.

I'm no more of an expert in mouldew as the other guy, but you kind of missing the point, i was responding to @icowden who said 10 billion to waste is not so much compared to other projects that lead to billions being wasted. I disagree with that opinion because just because the government wastes money on Y doesn't mean they should also waste it on X right? MildewMouldew/black mould whatever they call it is what you gonna get if you concentrate on insulation , no matter how many surveyors and architects you hire.(and it's isn't just an issue of bad insulation, not enough ventilation can cause it too for example)
That is part of my point altough it not part of the original topic, if you really want to make houses better, you need to do more than just calculate how much it would cost to insulate all, you need to calculate how much it cost to make then all as energy efficient as possible, and while your on it how the change the source of heating etc. etc. @farfromtheland made a few suggestions in this topic and others.

That's pretty daft, even by your standards. With gas prices set to soar, the payback on insulation will be much quicker. And insulation reduces condensation. Insulate Britain are right on the money imo.

I don't know about you but even if Boris would sign off the 10 billion wasting of money plans tommorow assuming he is not fired by then, it won't be done by this winter, and probably not by the next either.
Insulation only works properly if it's done under the best circumstances, so that means that insulating an house you need to start building and therefore is developed with maximum insulation properties in mind, will be better insulated then just whacking insulation materials in an building they build 80 years ago.
That is where that 10 Billion pound number is based on.(not my number/calculations but insulate brittians.. poor Scots and Wales and North Irish persons are left in the cold... Talking about pretty daft campaigning for an incomplete solution but leaving parts of the ''united'' kingdom out..)

However if you take that same 80 year old building and you start looking in what need to be improved first, you can get pretty close to that insulation level of the new build. However it's questionable whether then 10 billion number will be even close by what it's needed. And a other thing, before committing to something ti might be worth i don't know making a plan?



BTW, Condensation can come from bad insulation but even with the best insulation you will have condensation if no one ever opens an window or ventilates it's one of those issues that can have multiple causes.

 

[newfhouse]

Topic is about ignoring an injunction forbidding to block the in this example m25. Not a protest on itself.

I was part of a large gathering that caused traffic chaos for several hours near M25 J6 last week. We even got a mention on the radio so I guess it can only be a matter of time before the police come after me.

 

[winjim]

That is part of my point altough it not part of the original topic, if you really want to make houses better, you need to do more than just calculate how much it would cost to insulate all, you need to calculate how much it cost to make then all as energy efficient as possible, and while your on it how the change the source of heating etc. etc.

That's literally the second aim of IB.

2​

That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.​

BTW, Condensation can come from bad insulation but even with the best insulation you will have condensation if no one ever opens an window or ventilates it's one of those issues that can have multiple causes.

I promise you, you are not the only person to have thought of that. What do you think this thing is in my ceiling?

 

[icowden]

I'm no more of an expert in mouldew as the other guy, but you kind of missing the point, i was responding to @icowden who said 10 billion to waste is not so much compared to other projects that lead to billions being wasted.

You need to read a bit more carefully. I said no such thing.

What I said was that given the amount of money the government is wasting, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea to listen to Insulate Britain and put a programme in place.

I literally quoted their assessment that it could pay for itself in 7 years and could save money in other ways (such as on healthcare).

You need to stop reading your own bias into other people's posts.

 

[theclaud]

Nice rant, but really nothing to do with the point I was trying to make about the tactics of Insulate Britain and how going to jail might be a more extreme but necessary part of those tactics. No pain, no gain after all.

What is odd about this take, even on a day where, as you say, Sunak is promoting the con/PR trick of lending struggling people money that they will struggle even more to pay back? Btw, I also agree that the utilities should come back under public ownership, but I don't see how this makes my view odd.

If you think that's a rant, you probably need to get out more. I thought it was obvious, TBH - the demands of IB have never been unreasonable, but with the gov pulling this scam as even the middle classes start to realise they might have to think twice before switching the heating on, even the most belligerent wankpanzerist has to concede they have a point, and that their point might be more urgent than whether little Theo gets dropped off in time. You call it niche, but IB have chosen a simple, important issue that can also stand in - sort of metonymically - for the broader issues of inequality and climate breakdown, and throw into relief the criminal negligence of the political classes. Properly insulated homes now are a necessity whichever way you slice it. If you get held up by an IB protest, my advice is to turn your engine off, leave your car, and go and buy a coffee for the protestors.

 

[mudsticks]

If you think that's a rant, you probably need to get out more. I thought it was obvious, TBH - the demands of IB have never been unreasonable, but with the gov pulling this scam as even the middle classes start to realise they might have to think twice before switching the heating on, even the most belligerent wankpanzerist has to concede they have a point, and that their point might be more urgent than whether little Theo gets dropped off in time. You call it niche, but IB have chosen a simple, important issue that can also stand in - sort of metonymically - for the broader issues of inequality and climate breakdown, and throw into relief the criminal negligence of the political classes. Properly insulated homes now are a necessity whichever way you slice it. If you get held up by an IB protest, my advice is to turn your engine off, leave your car, and go and buy a coffee for the protestors.

And a bun

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I was part of a large gathering that caused traffic chaos for several hours near M25 J6 last week. We even got a mention on the radio so I guess it can only be a matter of time before the police come after me.

You just blew your alibi

That's literally the second aim of IB.

2​

That the UK government immediately promises to produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fully fund and take responsibility for the full low-energy and low-carbon whole-house retrofit , with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030 as part of a just transition to full decarbonisation of all parts of society and the economy.​

No that's an unrealistic timescale in which they try to set the terms while the main issues are left unattended. retrofit is in many cases to expensive but if you don't force an condition to build social housing back you just get all those ''regeneration'' projects which means if 100% social housing is demolised maybe 25% gets build back. it's like a said before no plan, which if listen to will just result in pointless actions(just after 2000 wood pallet was the thing the save the envirement, now there the diesel of heating sources.. and than goverments wonder why poeple don't trust them), and promises from the current uk goverment? that's an joke on itself.

I promise you, you are not the only person to have thought of that. What do you think this thing is in my ceiling?

I surely don't hope so, since i'm not working in that sector at all it would be terrible if i was the only one thinking of that. However i just mentioned it because otherwise somebody starts quoting me to explain that and such..

You need to read a bit more carefully. I said no such thing.

What I said was that given the amount of money the government is wasting, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea to listen to Insulate Britain and put a programme in place.

I literally quoted their assessment that it could pay for itself in 7 years and could save money in other ways (such as on healthcare).

sligthly different wording come down to the same, they put all kind of blockades in and then expect the government to do as they say. Surely there is an right to protest but there are limits and that's what they are testing right now.
Still don't see how them wasting money with any vague plan is any better than the goverments, could/may be/possible save money in X amount of years is not good enough.. They said the same thing 10/20 years ago about the then clean diesels and wood pallet heating. Both thought of differently now.

You need to stop reading your own bias into other people's posts.

it would be nice if everyone starts doing that

 

[newfhouse]

You just blew your alibi

What?

 

[Mr Celine]

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

What?

You said they where coming for you and you said out here that you are their, you can't deny anymore when the SWAT team bustst in and they put you in a room with an big non LED light on you face and start asking questions..

 

[newfhouse]

You said they where coming for you and you said out here that you are their, you can't deny anymore when the SWAT team bustst in and they put you in a room with an big non LED light on you face and start asking questions..

I don’t think they will risk getting stuck in the traffic jams.

 

[icowden]

No that's an unrealistic timescale in which they try to set the terms while the main issues are left unattended. retrofit is in many cases to expensive but if you don't force an condition to build social housing back you just get all those ''regeneration'' projects which means if 100% social housing is demolised maybe 25% gets build back. it's like a said before no plan, which if listen to will just result in pointless actions(just after 2000 wood pallet was the thing the save the envirement, now there the diesel of heating sources.. and than goverments wonder why poeple don't trust them), and promises from the current uk goverment? that's an joke on itself.

Good grief. Are you suggesting that these people may have started with overstated aims in order that they have a point to negotiate down from? Perish the thought!

May be they should restate their aims to get Britain Insulated within the next 100 years. Far more realistic!

Or - and this is an long shot...

Maybe they are starting from a point of idealism, and if a conversation was had with them, processes explained, timescales agreed in principle and policies put into place - they might accept the engagement, and we might all benefit.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Good grief. Are you suggesting that these people may have started with overstated aims in order that they have a point to negotiate down from? Perish the thought!

nope. i'm not saying that

May be they should restate their aims to get Britain Insulated within the next 100 years. Far more realistic!

No according to the doomongers we be all be death by then, then again the planet doesn't look half the way as Al Gore in the early 2000's predicted it to be. So it might be on time who knowns? But what you're doing here is a classic, just because i don't agree with the timescale stated you make something that sounds and incridible long time away out of it. Doesn't make your argument any stronger, it's a classical strawman argument.

Or - and this is an long shot...

Maybe they are starting from a point of idealism, and if a conversation was had with them, processes explained, timescales agreed in principle and policies put into place - they might accept the engagement, and we might all benefit.

Maybe, words matter, you claimed earlier that it could be earned back in 7 years, fair to you you said insulate brittian claimed that. If that where reliable numbers, i'm sure any hedgefunds/investment whatever etc. would be on their necks to hire them, because 10 billion earning itself back in 7 years in a return on investment that is out of this earth. And therefore more likely to be very unrealistic, just as their sister/parent/family organizations Extinction rebellions claim of god now how many climate deaths by 2030 i think they said?

There is a way to get that engagement it's called protest and in this case the law has put some limits on it, that's also sensible you know if the goverment/police keeps doing nothing, we might get @newfhouse being driven over by an lunatic in an car at the next protest because poeple don't trust the police to solve issues so they take matters in their own hands.(not something that i approve off but a more realistic prediction than earning 10 billion back in 7 years, i mean some poeple turn vile when they step into a car and/or have to wait)
I mean we might not always like the law, but the system is in place to keep everything somewhat balanced.

 

[winjim]

To address that many points in one post, and what's more to miss every single one by that wide a margin, is genuinely impressive stuff.

 

[newfhouse]

There is a way to get that engagement it's called protest and in this case the law has put some limits on it, that's also sensible you know if the goverment/police keeps doing nothing, we might get @newfhouse being driven over by an lunatic in an car at the next protest because poeple don't trust the police to solve issues so they take matters in their own hands.(not something that i approve off but a more realistic prediction than earning 10 billion back in 7 years, i mean some poeple turn vile when they step into a car and/or have to wait)

I know it’s wrong and I hate myself for doing it but I just can’t stop.