Free speech
- Thread starter Ianonabike
- Start date
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Psamathe
Veteran
Exactly. He wasn't charged because he was burning a book, he was charged about the burning a book as there are no such laws covering burning books. It was the nature of his protest together with his location and thus intent.
So, if in my isolated garden I burn a copy of the Quran and shout similar messages I break no laws.
C R
Guru
You said he had not been prosecuted. He was. The sentence was too lenient, but that's not what you claimed.
icowden
Shaman
May be you should try reading longer?
Moussa Kadri was sentenced to 20 weeks in prison, suspended for 18 months. Kadri pled guilty to assault and having a bladed article in a public place and is also required to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work and 10 days of rehabilitation. For the hard of thinking, that means that rather than spending 5 months in prison at the taxpayers expense,
Coskun who was guilty of the religiously aggravated public order offence that triggered the violence was also found guilty and fined £240.
Seems reasonably sensible and proportionate to me. Neither man covered themselves in glory and both have been suitably punished.
Psamathe
Veteran
I always get worried when people start criticising sentencing (though I'm sure I've done it as well). Sentencing is a complex matter with ranges of sentences depending on the offence. But then there are considerations over exactly what happened in court, how the charged person pleads, circumstances, remorse, etc. so impossible for those without that knowledge, experience and attendance to sensibly comment of sentence.
icowden
Shaman
He seems to have been fortunate in the choice of the crimes he was prosecuted for. These appear to have been common assault and possession of a bladed weapon. For assault I suspect he was graded at A1 up to 26 weeks custody. For the possession charge it's from 12 weeks to a year. A guilty plea plus mitigations e.g. first offence, out of character etc seem to have been taken into account.
What is surprising (to me anyway) is that he was not prosecuted for threatening with an offensive weapon in a public place. This would have been category A1 where the starting point is 2 years custody and the minimum is 1 year 6 months.
C R
Guru
Yes, I was surprised that he didn't get a custodial sentence, but we can only speculate as to how the charging decision was taken.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
As I've already said the law is what it is. Talking of Pork Pies and the rest is whataboutery.
If you don't like it then campaign for change.
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
The same law that was interpreted in such a way as to convict the book burner could convict the pie eater or t shirt wearer. Sure the law exists, but was its intention to be used to stop an individual saying insulting things in public about any religion? I doubt that it was but now a precedent has been set that in effect reinstates blasphemy.
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icowden
Shaman
Well the law was passed in 1998 and is specifically about religion:-
It is a summary only crime and does not carry a prison sentence - just a fine.
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
Who was the victim?
icowden
Shaman
Anyone Muslim attending the Turkish Consulate. In this incident Moussa Kadri. Pay attention.
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
I didn't see anybody going in to the consulate in the video. I'm not aware that his insults were directed at a particular Muslim. His assailant was passing by, got agitated, went off and came back with a huge knife.
'Anyone Muslim'
So the victims are Islam and Muslims in general then? No specific victim. The judge said that the fact that 'someone took exception' was enough to mean his actions were disorderly and therefore criminal. Whilst not perhaps designating it a blasphemy offence, it's on the slippery slope.
'Anyone Muslim'
So the victims are Islam and Muslims in general then? No specific victim. The judge said that the fact that 'someone took exception' was enough to mean his actions were disorderly and therefore criminal. Whilst not perhaps designating it a blasphemy offence, it's on the slippery slope.
icowden
Shaman
Take it up with Tony Blair.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
It doesn't need a 'victim' though I guess somebody needs to be upset/offended or whatever.
You need to have been living under a rock for decades to not understand the particular reverence in which the Koran is held by its adherents.
Others post of different religions, pork pies etc, as distractions. I'd be pretty certain, even if its not yet happened, actions involving those groups could cross a threshold; maybe stuff with pork meat and the sacred parts of a Synagogue?
You need to have been living under a rock for decades to not understand the particular reverence in which the Koran is held by its adherents.
Others post of different religions, pork pies etc, as distractions. I'd be pretty certain, even if its not yet happened, actions involving those groups could cross a threshold; maybe stuff with pork meat and the sacred parts of a Synagogue?
