Gender again. Sorry!

[albion]

Another one for the 'police to sort out'.

 

[monkers]

It's not a sport. Biology doesn't come into it.

Neither is chess, but you strongly support exclusion of trans women in the female category with some very flawed arguments.

And piano playing is competitive. For concert pianists it can require power, speed, and stamina, just like many sports. Wang gave that dazzling display of the Bite of the Flumblebee as an encore after a two hour concert programme.

In 1998, at the age of eleven, Wang received third prize in the Ettlingen International Competition for Young Pianists in Germany.[10] Three years later, she won the third prize and the special jury prize (awarded to an outstanding finalist less than 20 years of age, with prize money of 500,000 Japanese yen) at the first Sendai International Music Competition in Sendai, Japan.

In 2002, Wang won the concerto competition at the Aspen Music Festival.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Neither is chess, but you strongly support exclusion of trans women in the female category with some very flawed arguments.

I support women and other underrepresented groups having their own comps in order to raise the profile of the game and open up opportunities for underrepresented groups. Women only chess comps (which actually run alongside the mainstream mixed sex comps) raise the profile of Womens chess, as do women only pool comps.

Are you against book prizes just for black authors? Opposed to the various Gay Men's Choirs? It's the same idea, as you know very well.

And piano playing is competitive. For concert pianists it can require power, speed, and stamina, just like many sports. Wang gave that dazzling display of the Bite of the Flumblebee as an encore after a two hour concert programme.

Hmm. Not quite as body dependent as boxing is it though? If Wang had had the benefit of male puberty I doubt it would have given any advantage over other pianists.

Khalifa could easily resolve this issue with a swab test but chooses not to.

 

[monkers]

Are you against book prizes just for black authors? Opposed to the various Gay Men's Choirs? It's the same idea, as you know very well.

I think you may have been eating the wrong kind of cheese and having lurid dreams again.

What the fark are you on about?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Seems you're too thick to grasp that separate events, tournaments, organisations, aren't about those groups not being good enough to compete in the mainstream, or about other groups having an advantage, but about raising the profile of those things and encouraging participation. Women's chess and pool comps aren't about men having an unfair advantage.

 

[monkers]

Seems you're too thick to grasp that separate events, tournaments, organisations, aren't about those groups not being good enough to compete in the mainstream, or about other groups having an advantage, but about raising the profile of those things and encouraging participation. Women's chess and pool comps aren't about men having an unfair advantage.

Then there's no reasonable argument for banning trans women from women's chess is there, just as Gay men's choruses don't ban trans men.

Let's just remember that we women are not a minority group; by sex we are the majority group. Playing chess is not a rights issue - but then what do you know about pragmatism or tolerance of difference.

 

[monkers]

5-ard men aren't trans so what is the lady brain relevance? And transwomen don't have a dsd.

What these scientists are saying is that gender identity is real because of the way the brain is subject to sex hormones. They have also said that not all of us have tissues that respond to androgens. Therefore a person who is born male, but who has brain tissue not sensitive to androgen will be 'ladybrained' to use your so scientific terminology with a sense of self of being female.

You have been repeatedly saying that khelif is a male. You have no evidence to support that. Try eating milder cheese before bedtime.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What these scientists are saying is that gender identity is real because of the way the brain is subject to sex hormones. They have also said that not all of us have tissues that respond to androgens. Therefore a person who is born male, but who has brain tissue not sensitive to androgen will be 'ladybrained' to use your so scientific terminology with a sense of self of being female.

You have been repeatedly saying that khelif is a male. You have no evidence to support that. Try eating milder cheese before bedtime.

Bit of a stretch from the paper's suggestion that how a 5-ard person feels about themselves might influence their decision, to you saying it means there are male and female brains. Given that transwomen don't routinely have the 5-ard dsd anyway it's irrelevant.

The evidence is that Khelif has failed 2 sex tests and their own trainer has now said there are 'problems with (Khelif's) chromosomes'.
As such there are plausible questions about their sex. It's not unreasonable that these questions should be answered by a straightforward test.

If there were doubts about an athlete using banned substances to gain advantage nobody would suggest they shouldn't be tested.

 

[classic33]

Bit of a stretch from the paper's suggestion that how a 5-ard person feels about themselves might influence their decision, to you saying it means there are male and female brains. Given that transwomen don't routinely have the 5-ard dsd anyway it's irrelevant.

The evidence is that Khelif has failed 2 sex tests and their own trainer has now said there are 'problems with (Khelif's) chromosomes'.
As such there are plausible questions about their sex. It's not unreasonable that these questions should be answered by a straightforward test.

If there were doubts about an athlete using banned substances to gain advantage nobody would suggest they shouldn't be tested.

The "evidence" is that she passed more than two tests, done under the supervision/rules of the same organization that did the two she failed.

That same organization has been at the centre of some testing controversy for the last eight years. Including doping tests.

 

[Bromptonaut]

All well and good to say Khelif should be tested but what exactly are they to be tested for and is the outcome necessarily binary?

 

[AuroraSaab]

The "evidence" is that she passed more than two tests, done under the supervision/rules of the same organization that did the two she failed.

When and where were these 2 plus sex tests that Khelif passed done? Ordinary drug testing doesn't usually look for sex markers as far as I know.

All well and good to say Khelif should be tested but what exactly are they to be tested for and is the outcome necessarily binary?

To identify their sex, because it's relevant to unfair advantage. Yes, it is. Binary with some rare variations within each sex, eg the ambiguous genitalia and internal testes common to 5-ard individuals. A cheek swab test and a follow up blood test would clear up the issue very quickly.

 

[classic33]

When and where were these 2 plus sex tests that Khelif passed done? Ordinary drug testing doesn't usually look for sex markers as far as I know.

The link was actually posted by yourself. It wouls seem that you were only concerned about two of the result's.

And, from what was read the IBO weren't doing a doping/drugs test at the time.

To identify their sex, because it's relevant to unfair advantage. Yes, it is. Binary with some rare variations within each sex, eg the ambiguous genitalia and internal testes common to 5-ard individuals. A cheek swab test and a follow up blood test would clear up the issue very quickly.

Who do you think you are, demanding that another person undergo testing until the results meet your satisfaction?

Not one of us on here has that right.

What would a result of XXY do for you?

 

[classic33]

All well and good to say Khelif should be tested but what exactly are they to be tested for and is the outcome necessarily binary?

It's not just one test, as evidenced by her reply to you. Her demand for one test has now increased to two.

She'll only be satisfied when she gets the result(s) she wants. She has no concern for the person, just the test results.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The link was actually posted by yourself. It wouls seem that you were only concerned about two of the result's.

No it wasn't. I haven't posted a link that says Khelif passed 2 sex tests. Repost it then.

Who do you think you are, demanding that another person undergo testing until the results meet your satisfaction? Not one of us on here has that right.

Who are you to say that when there are issues surrounding fairness in sport that people can't point it out and ask for clarification?

If there's a case of unfairness of a different nature - a flyweight boxer who looked heavy, an athlete that raised questions about being doped, an abled bodied person in the paraolympics - nobody would question that their eligibility should be verified.

What would a result of XXY do for you?

XXY would be the Klinefelter dsd, which is a male condition. Males with this condition aren't wrongly recorded as female at birth. There are only 3 recorded cases of females with XXY. You could just google this stuff.

XXY would prove Khelif is male and shouldn't be punching women in the face in Women's boxing.

 

[classic33]

No it wasn't. I haven't posted a link that says Khelif passed 2 sex tests. Repost it then.

You did post a link, with you pointing out the two failed tests.

Who are you to say that when there are issues surrounding fairness in sport that people can't point it out and ask for clarification?

If there's a case of unfairness of a different nature - a flyweight boxer who looked heavy, an athlete that raised questions about being doped, an abled bodied person in the paraolympics - nobody would question that their eligibility should be verified.

But you're non of the above, are you. I'll repeat the question for you to answer.
Who are you to demand that another person takes tests to suit you?

XXY would be the Klinefelter dsd, which is a male condition. Males with this condition aren't wrongly recorded as female at birth. There are only 3 recorded cases of females with XXY. You could just google this stuff.

XXY would prove Khelif is male and shouldn't be punching women in the face in Women's boxing.

From what has been read, it doesn't. The code is read left to right, not from the centre.