Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Neither of those reports identify being on the waiting list as the sole cause of the young person's suicide. Neither do they say not getting puberty blockers caused the suicide - which is what has been repeatedly claimed on here. The coroners suggest lack of support whilst on the list, individual specific errors in care, and a complex mental health history all contributed.

They show exactly what Louis Appleby says: suicidal ideology is a complex thing, most of those suffering have a host of stuff going on, and there is often more than one factor involved. To continue to promote this narrative that you're more likely to kill yourself if you don't get hormones or surgery is irresponsible.

 

[monkers]

Neither of those reports identify being on the waiting list as the sole cause of the young person's suicide. Neither do they say not getting puberty blockers caused the suicide - which is what has been repeatedly claimed on here. The coroners suggest lack of support whilst on the list, individual specific errors in care, and a complex mental health history all contributed.

They show exactly what Louis Appleby says: suicidal ideology is a complex thing, most of those suffering have a host of stuff going on, and there is often more than one factor involved. To continue to promote this narrative that you're more likely to kill yourself if you don't get hormones or surgery is irresponsible.

Here is what I actually said, rather that what you keep saying I said ...

Here's a flavour of what the GC brigade have achieved for the well-being of trans kids ... read the words of coroners ...

In other words, the GC brigade have managed to close down services for trans youth without a viable system in place. I said, ''read the words of coroners''.

You've tried to pretend ever since that I've said something else, and that the reports that I linked which were not the actual words of coroners but hearsay and media reports.

There were nine reports written by coroners criticising the lack of services for trans youth.

How desperately unhinged you've become as a result.

 

[AuroraSaab]

NHS Consultant Surgeon Salaries​

£103K-£127K/y
And worth every last penny in my opinion. Why the fascination with what he earns. I thought genitals were your obsession.

He doesn't work for the NHS and hasn't for 10 years. He works privately for Nuffield Heath at £23k per op.

You think that being highly paid means he can't know what he's talking about?

No, I think he has a vested interest in continuing to be able to offer his services. It's a cosmetic service like other cosmetic services and he's free to provide it.

My issue is in him promoting the suicide narrative when research does not support the alarmist claim he makes in the video.

 

[monkers]

He works privately for Nuffield Heath at £23k per op.

He does not pocket £23k per op. You are making stuff up. Also it is totally irrelevant.

 

[AuroraSaab]

He certainly doesn't work for the NHS for £100k a year.

 

[monkers]

He certainly doesn't work for the NHS for £100k a year.

I know that both he and Mr Thomas worked for the NHS, but also did private work for Nuffield. I am aware of something called the 10% rule - that is that surgeons can do private work but only up to the value of 10% of their annual salary. Things change and may no longer be the case - however being highly paid as a surgeon does not make you a bad surgeon.

You think for a moment that Nuffield allows their whole package price of £23k per surgery to be trousered by James Bellringer? I don't think so!

 

[AuroraSaab]

In other words, the GC brigade have managed to close down services for trans youth without a viable system in place. I said, ''read the words of coroners''.

No system has been shut down. They've simply moved to an evidence based holistic model, ie no puberty blockers because there's no evidence of benefit.

You've tried to pretend ever since that I've said something else, and that the reports that I linked which were not the actual words of coroners but hearsay and media reports.

They weren't actual coroner reports. You continually overstate your evidence then get shirty when called out on it.

Now where's your survey link for where 89 UK people know a trans person who has been killed? Where's your data for the 1 in 5 will comit suicide if they don't get surgery that Mr Bell ringer claims?

 

[monkers]

No system has been shut down. They've simply moved to an evidence based holistic model, ie no puberty blockers because there's no evidence of benefit.


They weren't actual coroner reports. You continually overstate your evidence then get shirty when called out on it.

Now where's your survey link for where 89 UK people know a trans person who has been killed? Where's your data for the 1 in 5 will comit suicide if they don't get surgery that Mr Bell ringer claims?

You are so desperate for a win because you keep on getting caught out for making stuff up.

If you want to know where James Bellringer gets his information, then you'll need to asking him. I can't read minds, let alone the minds of people on youtube. Try being reasonable for once.

As for the data I posted, I have it as a saved pdf file. I'll look for the source later.

 

[classic33]

No system has been shut down. They've simply moved to an evidence based holistic model, ie no puberty blockers because there's no evidence of benefit.


They weren't actual coroner reports. You continually overstate your evidence then get shirty when called out on it.

Now where's your survey link for where 89 UK people know a trans person who has been killed? Where's your data for the 1 in 5 will comit suicide if they don't get surgery that Mr Bell ringer claims?

Why not put that question to Mr Bellringer?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I know that both he and Mr Thomas worked for the NHS, but also did private work for Nuffield. I am aware of something called the 10% rule - that is that surgeons can do private work but only up to the value of 10% of their annual salary. Things change and may no longer be the case - however being highly paid as a surgeon does not make you a bad surgeon.

You think for a moment that Nuffield allows their whole package price of £23k per surgery to be trousered by James Bellringer? I don't think so!

It's on his website. He left Charing Cross and the NHS in 2014. He might treat NHS referrals, just like you can have your hip done privately and paid for by the NHS.

I don't question his surgical ability. I question his promotion that without surgery 1 in 5 trans people will kill themselves. It's an unevidenced claim.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why not put that question to Mr Bellringer?

He's making the assertion when evidence does not support it. Why don't you guys ask him as it's you promoting his assertion?

He's repeating a common fallacy, based on poor data from a shonky survey, but one which has been repeated so often it has become taken as fact.

I've provided the evidence that his assertion is incorrect.

 

[monkers]

It's on his website. He left Charing Cross and the NHS in 2014. He might treat NHS referrals, just like you can have your hip done privately and paid for by the NHS.

I don't question his surgical ability. I question his promotion that without surgery 1 in 5 trans people will kill themselves. It's an unevidenced claim.

I haven't spoken with Mr Thomas or Mr Bellringer for a number of years. Mr Thomas sadly died from Covid - no I haven't read the coroner's report!

As for the evidence you require before believing an eminent surgeon, it comes from evidence unknown to both of us; so go ahead and ask him.

 

[monkers]

I've provided the evidence that his assertion is incorrect.

You've done no such thing.

 

[classic33]

He's making the assertion when evidence does not support it. Why don't you guys ask him as it's you promoting his assertion?

He's repeating a common fallacy, based on poor data from a shonky survey, but one which has been repeated so often it has become taken as fact.

I've provided the evidence that his assertion is incorrect.

You're the one wanting an answer, to your question, though. Not me.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You're the one wanting an answer, to your question, though. Not me.

I have an answer already. Analysis of the research on trans suicide rates shows the quality of the current studies to be poor. Therefore claims like '1 in 5 will kill themselves without surgery' are unfounded. Platforming such unevidenced data is irresponsible.