Gender again. Sorry!

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mickle

New Member
It looks v complicated. She obviously need a printed checklist and a pen. Is she allowed to ask questions?

Excluding all males from women's loos is not complicated at all. What makes it complicated is the idea that certain males should now be allowed to share women's facilities. I'm trying to understand how a woman is expected to differentiate between the different classes of males.

Do you know why women have their own intimate spaces, toilets, changing rooms, refuges? Any clue at all?
 

classic33

Myself
It was implied by the emphasis on sex/violent offending and crime stats. The perfectly valid requirement of women for privacy and to simply be away from men in certain situations is barely given any credence by men in this discussion.
You say implied, but you know it was never said yet you carry the same specific over into your next post as though it had been said. Going so far as to put something "implied" into inverted commas.

A young lass got beaten up in a local bus station toilet, last Wednesday. Reported as being attacked by two teenagers. Required hospital treatment.
True in the sense that the two teenagers were two other lasses at the same school. Both being held by security outside the toilets. No way through, so anyone wanting past had to approach security to find out which way to get out.
 
We know that a higher % of transwomen are incarcerated for sex offences than other male prisoners, and of course gigantically higher than the % of women jailed for sex offences.

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As you know, the stats for those with a GRC are not available - they are counted in the stats for their appropriated sex. That does not magically mean that men with a GRC are somehow rendered more harmless than any other man and shouldn't be subject to the same safeguarding that applies to other men.

This increasing pivot to 'only men with a GRC are really trans', and so this specific cohort of men must be proved dangerous or given a free pass that is unavailable to other men, is a fascinating grasp at straws.
 

monkers

Squire
Excluding all males from women's loos is not complicated at all. What makes it complicated is the idea that certain males should now be allowed to share women's facilities. I'm trying to understand how a woman is expected to differentiate between the different classes of males.

Do you know why women have their own intimate spaces, toilets, changing rooms, refuges? Any clue at all?

''Complicated'' or not I have to tell you again, blanket bans are not lawful.

I also have to tell you that the terms that you are using are gender terms, and not pertaining to a person's sex. Trans women with a GRC can use the women's loo because their gender identity matches the sign on the door -''women''.

This is special pleading.

The term ''public toilets'' refers to the fact that the public can enter. The law says that a private space exists behind a closed and locked door.

The reason for the difference is accounted for by the available facilities. You choose which door to go through according to the facilities that you need regardless of your sex or gender identity.

If baby change facilities are only in the women's loo, then that is where a father needs to go to change a nappy.

This isn't hard.

The case you are making is one of special pleading for permission to exercise prejudice over people that you dislike because you found some pictures of people that you call ''perverts''. You can provide no evidence of harm or wrongdoing, but you feel that you are entitled to do this.

You have no such entitlement of privilege - we hear too much of it these days, people trying to exercise some superiority. Typically this is a feature of while nationalism, and mostly claimed by middle-aged white men (boomers).
 

Ian H

Legendary Member
Excluding all males from women's loos is not complicated at all. What makes it complicated is the idea that certain males should now be allowed to share women's facilities. I'm trying to understand how a woman is expected to differentiate between the different classes of males.

Do you know why women have their own intimate spaces, toilets, changing rooms, refuges? Any clue at all?

Several of my female friends and our mutual trans woman friend seem not to find it any kind of a problem.

But I was merely laughing at your post.
 

monkers

Squire
We know that a higher % of transwomen are incarcerated for sex offences than other male prisoners, and of course gigantically higher than the % of women jailed for sex offences.

View attachment 8201

As you know, the stats for those with a GRC are not available - they are counted in the stats for their appropriated sex. That does not magically mean that men with a GRC are somehow rendered more harmless than any other man and shouldn't be subject to the same safeguarding that applies to other men.

This increasing pivot to 'only men with a GRC are really trans', and so this specific cohort of men must be proved dangerous or given a free pass that is unavailable to other men, is a fascinating grasp at straws.

The bolded bit - exactly so. But we do know that there are only 10 prisoners with a GRC. That 10 includes trans women and trans men with a GRC for the whole spectrum of offences.

A reasonable estimate of the number of trans women might be 6. Therefore the number of sexual offences would be a random number in the range of a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 6.

So not the 245 that you claim, and not the 1916 figure that Mickle presents.

Even if the number of sexual assaults carried out by trans women with a GRC is, let's say 2, that does not mean they were crimes against women; neither does it mean that they were carried out in a public space.

With all that in mind the likely number of women assaulted by trans women with a GRC in a public space is likely zero.

You haven't produced evidence that is anything like as compelling.

This is what makes you so dangerous - an absolute refusal to use careful analysis of meaningful data.
 

CXRAndy

Veteran
Several of my female friends and our mutual trans woman friend seem not to find it any kind of a problem
My group of friends say it is a big problem 🤣
 

mickle

New Member
It looks v complicated. She obviously need a printed checklist and a pen. Is she allowed to ask questions?

Several of my female friends and our mutual trans woman friend seem not to find it any kind of a problem.

But I was merely laughing at your post.

You seem not to give any kind of shoot about the women and girls who do not want male bodies in their private spaces. Do your 'several female friends' think that all males should be allowed to access women's intimate spaces? I don't believe it for a second.
 
Your female friends can't consent for the other women who also use that space though, Ian. When 3rd unisex spaces are provided I expect they will be happy using those and leave the Women's for women who aren't.

This pretence that the law hasn't been clarified by the supreme court and men, all men, can't be excluded from women's spaces and services under the Equality Act is just an attempt to use the forum to spread misinformation.

With all that in mind the likely number of women assaulted by trans women with a GRC in a public space is likely zero.

... and we're back to 'only men with a GRC are really trans'. A man with a certificate is still a man, both in material reality and under the Equality Act.

If there were statistics that showed that men with green eyes had a low offending rate, should that mean that men with green eyes - but no other men - are allowed in women's spaces and services? Of course not because that would be absolutely nuts.
 
Yes I do. These are legacy issues relating to men refusing access to women in 'their' spaces.

Entirely wrong. Prisons were mixed sex until the likes of Elizabeth Fry and John Howard saw the sexual abuse and sexual degregation faced by women and girls in jail. Male prisoners were very happy to give women 'access to their spaces'. We aren't talking about Gentlemen's Clubs here. We all know why women and girls need single sex spaces.

It wasn't because men didn't like sharing that Tokyo introduced women only train compartments, just like India and some African cities have.

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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01...-daily-trauma-on-tokyo-subway-gropers/8166672
 
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