Gender again. Sorry!

[AndyRM]

I have been to pantomime show. I presume it's the same

Yeah, it totally is.

I can't believe I didn't realise this before!

 

[AuroraSaab]

Did you need to go to a minstrel show to form an opinion as to whether it's demeaning or not?

 

[icowden]

Did you need to go to a minstrel show to form an opinion as to whether it's demeaning or not?

If you are going to persist with this, the only way drag would be demeaning to women is if women had cocks and balls.
How do you explain that Ru Paul's drag race is hugely popular with women (both straight and gay)?

I don't think women feel threatened by drag. That's usually the province of the "backs against the walls lads" type men.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Nobody's threatened by it. Many people do find it a sexist and demeaning caricature of women, that's a long way from Widow Twanky.

I don't know why some women like Ru Paul's drag race. I would guess that they've had centuries of socialisation into not questioning how women are depicted and seeing it as harmless fun, which is exactly what they used to say about blackface. I don't get why some women opposed the vote or support prostitution either. Just because some women support it doesn't automatically mean it's acceptable. Some women support all kinds of stuff that are harmful to both themselves and other women.

You probably need to ask why that is, and what it says about how the world treats women, before saying 'It must be ok 'cos some women like it'.


View: https://x.com/OliLondonTV/status/1692121100828746068

 

[icowden]

I don't know why some women like Ru Paul's drag race. I would guess that they've had centuries of socialisation into not questioning how women are depicted and seeing it as harmless fun, which is exactly what they used to say about blackface. I don't get why some women opposed the vote or support prostitution either. Just because some women support it doesn't automatically mean it's acceptable. Some women support all kinds of stuff that are harmful to both themselves and other women.

That clip is a classic example. Jimbo is not mocking breastfeeding, they are sexualising it. Drag is highly sexualised. Nothing to do with women.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Yet they dress as caricatures of women. I'm not sure your description of drag as sexualising female functions makes it any more palatable.

 

[AndyRM]

Did you need to go to a minstrel show to form an opinion as to whether it's demeaning or not?

Yup, I've been to a minstrel show.

It was f*cked up and I hated it.

So you've not been to a drag show?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Only accidentally when drag performers have been part of some event or venue I was at. I've never deliberately attended one. More easily avoided in these internet days fortunately. The ones I've seen I've enjoyed as much as you enjoyed the minstrel show.

Don't say perhaps it's because I haven't seen a good quality drag act because it could be you just haven't seen a good quality minstrel show...

 

[icowden]

Yet they dress as caricatures of women. I'm not sure your description of drag as sexualising female functions makes it any more palatable.

Each to themselves. Maybe drag is not for you. However, drag artists are not wanting to be women. They are creating extreme feminised, comic, sexualised personalities - hence the names - A'Whora, Ella VaDay, Cheryl Hole, Sum Ting Wong etc

 

[Bromptonaut]

My Gran loved the B&W Minstrels and I saw them once live in Scarborough.

They were of their time. Nothing more to say I think.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Each to themselves. Maybe drag is not for you. However, drag artists are not wanting to be women. They are creating extreme feminised, comic, sexualised personalities - hence the names - A'Whora, Ella VaDay, Cheryl Hole, Sum Ting Wong etc

Nobody has ever said they are claiming to be women, though perhaps one of two do.
Your final sentence actually explains why they don't even need to be claiming to be women to be considered a sexist, dated, misogynistic form of entertainment that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

 

[mickle]

Drag falls under the trans umbrella apparently.

 

[AndyRM]

Only accidentally when drag performers have been part of some event or venue I was at. I've never deliberately attended one. More easily avoided in these internet days fortunately. The ones I've seen I've enjoyed as much as you enjoyed the minstrel show.

Don't say perhaps it's because I haven't seen a good quality drag act because it could be you just haven't seen a good quality minstrel show...

Ah right.

So that's a "No" then.

 

[AuroraSaab]

No. I've seen drag acts. The quality of the show isn't the issue. The fact that Paul Robeson was a fine singer doesn't mitigate the fact that he performed in blackface.

Penn State university, home of the Lia Thomas swimming debacle, has announced it will restore to female athletes all titles, records, recognitions, that were misappropriated by male athletes who were allowed in the female category. It will send a letter of apology to female athletes who were affected.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/upen...cting-womens-sports-education-department-says

 

[icowden]

Nobody has ever said they are claiming to be women, though perhaps one of two do.
Your final sentence actually explains why they don't even need to be claiming to be women to be considered a sexist, dated, misogynistic form of entertainment that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.