monkers
Legendary Member
You argue like an idiot. Just try using a rational argument for once. I can't be bothered with this utter nonsense of your's.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
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You argue like an idiot. Just try using a rational argument for once. I can't be bothered with this utter nonsense of your's.
AuroraSaab
Squire
News today on the Tavistock and the replacement clinics.
So not really 'The Tavistock is so good they're opening more just the same'. It's actually a new service model that requires different staff than the Tavistock model which was affirmation only.
Whilst noone would want the NHS to rush open these clinics before they are ready, it's wrong that children on the waiting list don't seem to have been given access to their local NHS mental health support in the meantime. Money should have been allocated for this.
So not really 'The Tavistock is so good they're opening more just the same'. It's actually a new service model that requires different staff than the Tavistock model which was affirmation only.
Whilst noone would want the NHS to rush open these clinics before they are ready, it's wrong that children on the waiting list don't seem to have been given access to their local NHS mental health support in the meantime. Money should have been allocated for this.
multitool
Guest
It is being closed for a variety of reasons.
I didnt make that comparison. You did. But you carry on doing tedious old you.
Nope. I said TW "can" be and included TM in that hypothetical. Stop being so disingenuous (and/or illiterate)
AuroraSaab
Squire
What do you mean by 'can' rather than 'are' then? Because if you believe transwomen are only women some of the time, I think you'll find that is regarded as transphobic.
If you are saying they should be treated as women in some situations but not in others, again I think you'll find that is also 'transphobic'.
If you acknowledge that you can't change your sex, but there should be some limited accommodations for adults who have genuine long standing body dysphoria, then you're probably on the same page as most of the UK population, including me.
Edited for spelling, because I'm illiterate obvs.
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monkers
Legendary Member
Excellent - now you must realise why you are seen as transphobic.
multitool
Guest
I really can't be bothered. This was a discussion we had months ago. If you are interested you can go back and read it. I'm not rehashing it to satisfy your attempt at a decontextualised gotcha.
I'm pretty sure I've said that I regard a large part of the trans 'issue' as linguistic. The law seems to be able to accommodate TW as women. I can accommodate them socially as women...so do most of the women I know, but that is because the women I know arent ideologically-captured dïckheads. Those same women regard the putative 'threat' of TW that you posit as ideologically driven nonsense, as do I. They dont regard TW in women's spaces as an affront to their dignity like you do (but I'll bet you've never actually encountered one in a woman's space). All the women I know regard predatory men as the danger, not trans women. They seem to be able to tell the difference and can't be arsed either with your attempt to define TW into a threat.
Do I think TW are biologically identical to cis women? No. And guess who is more aware of those differences than anyone else? Trans women.
I am quite comfortable with lots of areas in life that have ambiguity. I don't need everything cast in black and white.
I think you are part of an online cult, much like the anti-vaxxers. You employ the same style of arguments, with the same kind of weird obscure examples that you try to extrapolate to a norm.
I regard you as a small part of a small group of extremists who are making the world a worse place. Not only for TW, but also for women in general because you are affording entryism to the far right.
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AuroraSaab
Squire
If not regarding transwomen as women 100% of the time, in every situation and circumstance, is regarded as transphobic then I reckon most of the world is transphobic. You must realise by now that nobody gives a toss about being called a transphobe because the bar for transphobia is so very low.
multitool
Guest
Well that is strange because the standard GC tactic is to say that everyone is just going along with the whims of the trans community because they are petrified of being labelled as trasphobes.
You can't have it both ways.
classic33
Über Member
@AuroraSaab, just what is it that frightens you about them?
The wording used in your posts shows there's something that frightens you. However you choose to hide behind a larger group.
You've admitted that you don't want them near you, your "dignity" is more important than anyone else's. From your response to the post about the disabled toilets. Not wanting them near "normal people" such as yourself.
Define normal please?
How far have you progressed in any of the various sports you've brought up so far. How many have you actually tried playing?
Were you threatened whilst you were in prison? If so, why didn't you report it. Or even sell your story on release.
The wording used in your posts shows there's something that frightens you. However you choose to hide behind a larger group.
You've admitted that you don't want them near you, your "dignity" is more important than anyone else's. From your response to the post about the disabled toilets. Not wanting them near "normal people" such as yourself.
Define normal please?
How far have you progressed in any of the various sports you've brought up so far. How many have you actually tried playing?
Were you threatened whilst you were in prison? If so, why didn't you report it. Or even sell your story on release.
monkers
Legendary Member
You haven't yet understood have you? The law requires all of us individuals to behave in a non-discriminatory way to each other. You try to twist the message of the law to discriminate against one group of people - trans people. You try to exercise the right to discriminate where no such right exists. Targeted discrimination of trans people has a name - that name is transphobia.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Well some people are afraid of being labelled transphobic, fairly or unfairly, because it will affect their livlihood, especially in sports where people depend on scholarships and sponsorship.
It's no coincidence that those who do speak out are either too rich and successful to lose out, or have retired from their career and have a lot less to lose.
So yes, you can have it both ways - some will be afraid because of the consequences, others are fortunate enough to not have to care.
Luckily there are people willing to speak out, and as we've seen in sports, athletes speaking out and being consulted has contributed to the rules being changed.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Nope. Wishing to keep women's single sex spaces and services just for women is as much about dignity and privacy as safety.
I've said no such thing. I wish to preserve the exemptions of the Equality Act which allow single sex services and spaces - for both men and women. Why do you think the wishes of transwomen should override the wishes of others?
I have no idea what you are on about here. I haven't said anything of the sort.
Again, this is just nonsense, Classic. Are you saying women should have no interest in fairness in sport or in the welfare of women in prison unless they are elite athletes or in jail themselves? If you are saying that, it could equally apply to you or anyone else in this thread, whether we are talking about single sex spaces, war in the Ukraine, US school shootings, or anything else.
AuroraSaab
Squire
I wish to preserve the single sex exemptions allowed under the Equality Act. This allows discrimination (in certain circumstances) on the basis of sex. Transwomen aren't excluded from women's single sex spaces and services just because they are trans, as you know, otherwise transmen would be excluded too. It can hardly be transphobia if transmen are admitted, but there's very little that's not transphobic to you so I'm sure I'll cope with your labels.
classic33
Über Member
I'll give you time to check your reply to my post. You equated the treatment of disabled people to that of women. Saying their dignity and privacy should be the same as that afforded to the disabled, before seperate toilets became available. You were asked if I'd mis-read or misunderstood your reply, but you chose not to answer(post 3,738), or correct me.
How far have you got in the sports you've raised. Were you threatened in prison. Two points raised because you constantly use them to prove that one section of society is solely responsible for what happens.
How many women were threatened, or injured in attacks in womens prisons each year. Are all the attackers male? This would mean the staff, not other inmates, are the ones behind the attacks of course.
Proof that women are just as capable of killing as men.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianb...eme-rarity-in-mass-shootings/?sh=3ef558d9865e
AuroraSaab
Squire
You've entirely lost me now, Classic. I can't follow your point, I'm afraid.
