Gender again. Sorry!

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

monkers

Legendary Member
I wish to preserve the single sex exemptions allowed under the Equality Act. This allows discrimination (in certain circumstances) on the basis of sex. Transwomen aren't excluded from women's single sex spaces and services just because they are trans, as you know, otherwise transmen would be excluded too. It can hardly be transphobia if transmen are admitted, but there's very little that's not transphobic to you so I'm sure I'll cope with your labels.

Despite the many attempts to explain the law, it's clear you do not understand it. I suspect that you do not actually wish to understand it. Instead you wish to continue to pretend that the law is something that it is not. Worst still, you continue to attempt to convince others that the law is something that it is not.

The Equality Act sought to bring all existing anti-discrimination law into one place. Previous legislation was repealed with one necessary exception.

The Sex Discrimination Act 1975 was repealed by the EqA 2010, as was the Sex Discrimination Amendments 1999 (protecting the rights of people proposing, undergoing, or having completed transition from discrimination, harassment and victimisation in the workplace).

It was essential for the 2004 Act to remain in its entirety especially since GRCs and amended BCs had been issued for the four preceding years. The 2004 Act says that trans women are women and trans men are men for all purposes other than the exemptions noted. Therefore the 2010 respects the 2004 Act. It is not necessary for the 2010 Act to repeat the wording or essence of the 2004 Act because it continues to stand.

For example, a person assigned male at birth but proposing or undergoing transition has two protected characteristic of sex (legally male) and gender reassignment. A person assigned male at birth who has completed transition - holds a GRC and amended BC has the two protected characteristics of sex (legally female) and gender reassignment.

Consequently there are two different positions for trans people depending on whether they hold a GRC or not. Accordingly the permissible exemptions need to be interpreted in a thoughtful way, but there is no scope for blanket exemptions.

Where there is doubt about interpretation of domestic law, the court will always seek to understand what 'parliament intends' and has the legal competence to decide on this basis. This becomes legal precedent with the effect of being binding unless one of two things happens - the law is amended by government putting a Bill or some type of Statutory Instrument before parliament, or the ruling is overruled by a higher court.

Some people consider the EqA to be ambiguous, and they are keen to point to the permissible exemptions. However the High Court have ruled that blanket bans are not a permissible exemption - I've quoted the text of this and linked you to it in the past. The High Court could not have reasonably come to a different conclusion. The 2004 Act is the only anti-discrimination act not to have been repealed in 2010, therefore it becomes clear what parliament intended.

When you say that you wish to preserve the exemptions allowed under the Equality Act, you are wishing to preserve the status quo, which means that trans women can continue to use the facilities that accord with their legal sex; including toilets, changing rooms, and prisons, because blanket bans are not permissible under the law.

To meet your requirement the EqA would need to be changed. The protected characteristic of gender reassignment could be amended such that those people previously protected but not holding a GRC could be exempt without creating a legal conflict. However it can not be amended to introduce a blanket ban on those with a GRC because the 2004 Act stands with its message - trans women are women, and trans men are men.

Kemi Badenoch wishes to change the EqA to that end. She accepts that the protected characteristic of 'sex' means legal sex - she wishes to have this changed to biological sex. However her appointees to the EHRC have advised her that this is very difficult due to the effect of the 2004 Act.

It's quite clear that trans women with a GRC are women, and trans men with a GRC are men, because the state introduced the law to make it so and provided them with amended birth certificates.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Well some people are afraid of being labelled transphobic, fairly or unfairly, because it will affect their livlihood, especially in sports where people depend on scholarships and sponsorship.

It's no coincidence that those who do speak out are either too rich and successful to lose out, or have retired from their career and have a lot less to lose.

So yes, you can have it both ways - some will be afraid because of the consequences, others are fortunate enough to not have to care.

Luckily there are people willing to speak out, and as we've seen in sports, athletes speaking out and being consulted has contributed to the rules being changed.

So you are now contradicting yourself then, aren't you.
 
So you are now contradicting yourself then, aren't you.

Not really. Perfectly possible to have some people who feel free to speak out and others who don't. Just like being cancelled can be a thing of degrees. You can be cancelled in one area but not in others.

Well done every one of you GC idiots. This is the environment you have created:


View: https://twitter.com/22_Gilly/status/1656997386093305856?s=20


That whole account is very anti-gender critical so I'm inclined to take this claim with a pinch of salt. Just as you would if there was a Twitter claim from someone GC who felt intimidated by a transwoman in a single sex space or service. Funny how my links to women's experiences in prisons doesn't count as evidence but this does though.

As to KJK, there's lots of things I'm not on board with but are you seriously against what she is saying in that edited clip? Perhaps there was more to it than the clip shows, but creating an environment where women who don't want abortions don't feel pressured to have one isn't an anti-abortion stance. It's saying women should have a real choice.

'If women don't want abortions we should create an environment where they don't feel pressured to have them'. How on earth is that 'coming for women's rights'? Women have abortions for all sorts of reasons, including economic and cultural. Creating an environment where women aren't pressured into abortion because of the shame of unmarried pregnancy isn't a bad thing. Neither is creating an environment where women don't have to make an economic choice between adequately caring for their current children or having another mouth to feed.

In fact she's saying what feminists have said to conservatives in the US for years. If you want to reduce the abortion figures, reduce the reasons why women have abortions ie. better availability of contraception, improved economic conditions, support for single mothers, maternity pay.

As an aside, that account seems to have a dual obsession with both KJK and Graham Linehan.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Keen is a right-wing catholic bigot.
But yeah, crack on and portraying it as feminism.

Next you'll be telling us that the Republican ban on abortion in the US was feminism in action.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure I get to define exactly what feminism is. Pretty sure you don't get to tell women what it is though either.

For what it's worth KJK doesn't call herself a feminist. For anybody who is interested, this is an overall appraisal of the tension between left wing UK feminism and KJK's 'let all women speak' approach. It's sympathetic to the KJK approach of not policing women's speech, but it gives some idea of the divisions, if you can call them that.

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/policing-adult-human-females
 
 
Last edited:

Milzy

Well-Known Member
I'll give you time to check your reply to my post. You equated the treatment of disabled people to that of women. Saying their dignity and privacy should be the same as that afforded to the disabled, before seperate toilets became available. You were asked if I'd mis-read or misunderstood your reply, but you chose not to answer(post 3,738), or correct me.

How far have you got in the sports you've raised. Were you threatened in prison. Two points raised because you constantly use them to prove that one section of society is solely responsible for what happens.
How many women were threatened, or injured in attacks in womens prisons each year. Are all the attackers male? This would mean the staff, not other inmates, are the ones behind the attacks of course.

Proof that women are just as capable of killing as men.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianb...eme-rarity-in-mass-shootings/?sh=3ef558d9865e

That’s not proof. The shooter was on hormone replacement to be a man. Not a biological women who identifies as a women.
 
D

Deleted member 121

Guest
If you read this which is even main stream media it says she was a trans man under the care of her doctor

Come on Milzy... I thought we had this discussion about the main stream media the other night whilst wearing our tin foil tricorns?
 
Top Bottom