Gender again. Sorry!

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multitool

Shaman
Is there a chance the person was on some kind of HRT? I would say quite a moderate chance.

I think we've already seen that you are reality are bifurcated.

If you don't know, and you can't find out, then leave it. Making some sort of speculative comment then trying to run with it is bullshît of the highest order.
 

Milzy

Well-Known Member
I think we've already seen that you are reality are bifurcated.

If you don't know, and you can't find out, then leave it. Making some sort of speculative comment then trying to run with it is bullshît of the highest order.

It’s speculative but looking at the photograph of her/him there’s quite a masculine look. So if I ask your opinion if HRT has been used, you would answer. I just don’t know. Fair enough.
 

classic33

Senior Member
I think we've already seen that you are reality are bifurcated.

If you don't know, and you can't find out, then leave it. Making some sort of speculative comment then trying to run with it is bullshît of the highest order.
Doesnt that second part form the basis for main "argument" of one poster though. Along with obscure links that seldom seem to work, and privacy and dignity for all!
Unless you're not a women. In which case, suck it up and live with it, you're part of the problem.
 
Yes, Classic, men are part of the problem. Why don't you address the problem - ie the reasons why women and girls need spaces and services to themselves - with your fellow males, rather than moaning about men not having access to women's single sex spaces and services?

What's wrong with privacy and dignity for all? It's so weird that you would deny women and girls what you have so often complained about not having for yourself.
 

multitool

Shaman
And we are back to Aurora thinking that she speaks for all women, rather than just a fringe of internet-inspired obsessives.
 
Nowhere does my post say I speak for all women. This is just your usual mud slinging.

I'd be very surprised if there weren't people in real life who thought there were some services that should be able to be single sex to preserve privacy and dignity, like being able to choose a same sex carer for intimate care for example. Or having your medical examiner after a rape be the same sex. It's hardly a view held only by 'internet obsessives'. Obviously you know better though.
 

Milzy

Well-Known Member
This thread goes around in circles. I think it’s a subject that will carry on this way forever.
Some people are gaining traction from making trans political. It back fired for bud light and they lost millions and sacked their CEO.
 

classic33

Senior Member
Yes, Classic, men are part of the problem. Why don't you address the problem - ie the reasons why women and girls need spaces and services to themselves - with your fellow males, rather than moaning about men not having access to women's single sex spaces and services?

What's wrong with privacy and dignity for all? It's so weird that you would deny women and girls what you have so often complained about not having for yourself.
And why can't men and boys in particular have their privacy and dignity maintained? With single sex spaces for the younger ones, to protect their privacy? It doesn't fit your agenda, so you couldn't care less about them.

If by me complaining you mean the treatment by medical professionals, then there's been no demands made by me for treatment given by those qualified/trained to do so. I have complained about a vocal minority who felt medical treatment shouldn't be denied to me. Some insistent I was there under a pretence. How you get a hospital appointment, without being referred I'm not certain. Another doctor, in my case female, had to have cause to refer me there.

I don't think that I'm that important I can demand who I be seen by. It seems as though you do see yourself as that important however.

I'm happy if I'm able to walk out, under my own steam after treatment. You sound the sort that I've seen in many hospitals, kicking off at staff because they feel they're not being treated properly. It seldom helps in the long run, and slows down treatment for others.

If it's non of the above, show me where I've demanded, or complained about "not having for myself ".
 
I must have said half a dozen times that both men and women need their own single sex spaces and services. You though - as I understand it - think transwomen should have access to the spaces and services intended for women. I don't. There's not always the option to choose the sex of your doctor or carer, especially in specialised care, but in most cases there is, and the wishes of patients, male and female, should be respected.

'You sound the sort' .... lol.

You've repeatedly mentioned about the difficulties of disabled people and using toilets, and your own hospital experiences, and how difficult it is for them and how uncomfortable you were made to feel. I'm sorry that has been your experience but you have shown no insight whatsoever into how women and girls might feel also uncomfortable in a women's single sex service or space where a male bodied person was present.
 

multitool

Shaman
I must have said half a dozen times that both men and women need their own single sex spaces and services. You though - as I understand it - think transwomen should have access to the spaces and services intended for women. I don't. There's not always the option to choose the sex of your doctor or carer, especially in specialised care, but in most cases there is, and the wishes of patients, male and female, should be respected.

'You sound the sort' .... lol.

You've repeatedly mentioned about the difficulties of disabled people and using toilets, and your own hospital experiences, and how difficult it is for them and how uncomfortable you were made to feel. I'm sorry that has been your experience but you have shown no insight whatsoever into how women and girls might feel also uncomfortable in a women's single sex service or space where a male bodied person was present.

But you also think that TW are men and should use men's spaces, and TM should use women's spaces because they are women.

You seem to care little for the dignity of women when a big fully male-presenting TM walks in, but instead try to wheedle out of your binary view by suddenly ignoring biological sex and saying they should use men's loos.

Primacy of biological sex when it suits you. Gender "ideology" when it doesn't.

With regards to the thorny question of TW using men's loos, which you want, and then facing likely assault or rape because men are dangerous, you retort that men should change and not be dangerous...

...in which case seperate sexed facilities would not be needed, would they.

Nothing you say stands up to scrutiny.
 

classic33

Senior Member
I must have said half a dozen times that both men and women need their own single sex spaces and services. You though - as I understand it - think transwomen should have access to the spaces and services intended for women. I don't. There's not always the option to choose the sex of your doctor or carer, especially in specialised care, but in most cases there is, and the wishes of patients, male and female, should be respected.

'You sound the sort' .... lol.

You've repeatedly mentioned about the difficulties of disabled people and using toilets, and your own hospital experiences, and how difficult it is for them and how uncomfortable you were made to feel. I'm sorry that has been your experience but you have shown no insight whatsoever into how women and girls might feel also uncomfortable in a women's single sex service or space where a male bodied person was present.
You insist that men, whether they're not legally men, not be allowed to use facilities and spaces for women and girls. When it comes to boys, and women entering their single sex spaces you've said they'd be safe. The women aren't entering with any intention. Intention of what, you've never said.

In a general waiting area, why should anyone have to put up with a foul mouthed woman demanding their removal because they can't be genuine? That they are there with something else in mind, not what the doctor who has sent them there has said.
It made things harder for staff, but they'd to put up with it. Giving such detailed directions in the appointment letter, that it was impossible to not find them, whilst using seldom used corridors to get there.

Good to see that you still have the wrong end of the stick with regards disabled toilet provision. Initially provided, as I said, because places didn't want to customers. More importantly paying customers. As some else told me, because "normal" people such as yourself, didn't want to use the same facilities as a disabled person. Especially the possibility of using them at the same time as them. They should be kept away from "normal" people. Something you now want for women and girls.

As for sounding the sort, it was you and your demands to be treated by who you want that sprang instantly to mind today as I sat in the cubical in A&E being examined by a doctor and a student nurse. Both women by the way.
The woman kicking off did kick off, hitting a staff member with an equipment trolley. Removed from the hospital by two male security officers.
 

Milzy

Well-Known Member
Why am I only seeing these debates come up after been alive for over 40 years? How can we ever heal society when more & more complex issues keep arising. We are just becoming more separated into tribes. :sad:
 

multitool

Shaman
Why am I only seeing these debates come up after been alive for over 40 years?

You mean you haven't worked it out yet? :laugh:

People, like Aurora, have been radicalised on social media. Previously, you'd have to actually meet somebody physically, be convinced by them and willingly separate yourself from opposing views and actively seek out like-minded people.

Now, algorithms do all that for you and beam it straight into your face whenever you open twitter or Facebook. Why do you think we've seen so many radicalised over things like COVID vaccines, climate change, and so on.

Did you think that Aurora had become radicalised because she had actually experienced the infringements on her rights that she claims exist? Of course not. I doubt very much she has ever had a conversation with a trans person, or possibly even met one. Most people haven't.

(Sorry to mention you by name, Aurora, but you are a local example Milzy could relate to. I would have mentioned somebody else, but there isn't anyone)
 
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