Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

This is the description of 5-ard, the disorder that Caster Semenya has, and which it's quite likely the other banned athletes have. They are not women with naturally high testosterone like Pink News suggests. Can you honestly read this and say they should be competing in the female class?

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

'It is a male dsd....they are genetically male' (paraphrased).

There's an obvious reason why almost all these athletes are from Africa and poorer countries and that reason is limited access to paediatric and maternal health care, whether it's pregnancy scans, blood tests, home births instead of hospital births, no ante natal care and birth to age 5 stage checks etc. All meaning dsd's go undiagnosed, often until puberty.

The testosterone range these athletes have to get down to to compete is 5nmol per litre. So their natural testosterone level is obviously higher. By comparison the normal range for women is 0.1 to 1.8 nmol per litre.

Where are all the 'naturally high testosterone' women athletes from the USA and Europe?

 

[theclaud]

This is the description of 5-ard, the disorder that Caster Semenya has, and which it's quite likely the other banned athletes have. They are not women with naturally high testosterone like Pink News suggests. Can you honestly read this and say they should be competing in the female class?

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

'It is a male dsd....they are genetically male' (paraphrased).

There's an obvious reason why almost all these athletes are from Africa and poorer countries and that reason is limited access to paediatric and maternal health care, whether it's pregnancy scans, blood tests, home births instead of hospital births, no ante natal care and birth to age 5 stage checks etc. All meaning dsd's go undiagnosed, often until puberty.

The testosterone range these athletes have to get down to to compete is 5nmol per litre. So their natural testosterone level is obviously higher. By comparison the normal range for women is 0.1 to 1.8 nmol per litre.

Where are all the 'naturally high testosterone' women athletes from the USA and Europe?

Mate. Stop concern-trolling elite African athletes. Your idea of 'protecting women's sports' involved sanctioning the inspection of Ohio schoolgirls' genitalia by medics. You need to sit the fuck down.

 

[multitool]

I'm sure it's all very edifying for white women who aren't even interested in sport to sit around pontificating

They aren't even interested in women's sport, otherwise there would be some interest in the real issues surrounding women's sport, like inequality of opportunity, pay differentials, abuse, media coverage etc, not this fake moral panic that women's sport is over because somebody did a park run.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Mate. Stop concern-trolling elite African athletes. Your idea of 'protecting women's sports' involved sanctioning the inspection of Ohio schoolgirls' genitalia by medics. You need to sit the fuck down.

I've never sanctioned that, as you well know. Why don't you think all women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field whether at school level or Olympic level?

They aren't even interested in women's sport, otherwise there would be some interest in the real issues surrounding women's sport, like inequality of opportunity, pay differentials, abuse, media coverage etc, not this fake moral panic that women's sport is over because somebody did a park run.

The prominent sportswomen who campaign for fairness for women have also been campaigning about the other stuff for years too. It's also nonsense to suggest you can't complain about something as basic as fairness in sports until every other issue is solved first.
We'll get to fairness eventually, ladies, don't worry.

Once again though you're dismissive of stuff like Parkrun. Competitors deserve fairness whatever level they race at, otherwise why even record results. You might not give a toss that transwomen like Austin Killips and Cara Dixon hold records in the Womens category on Strava but perhaps the women do.

For anyone who missed it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...aled-held-transgender-attempted-murderer.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...arkrun-record-married-man-four-years-ago.html

 

[newfhouse]

Once again though you're dismissive of stuff like Parkrun. Competitors deserve fairness whatever level they race at, otherwise why even record results. You might not give a toss that transwomen like Austin Killips and Cara Dixon hold records in the Womens category on Strava but perhaps the women do.

For anyone who missed it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...aled-held-transgender-attempted-murderer.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...arkrun-record-married-man-four-years-ago.html

Just as a point of order, Parkrun is a run, not a race. If you do choose to compete it’s against your own PB and not other runners. The whole ethos is one of inclusivity and it’s only the self regarding that see it as anything else.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why do they officially record times, course records, your sex and age, at all if it's just a fun run? Why publish any results? You could time yourself on your watch if you wanted. If they are going to record times and publish results, it should be done with fairness taken into account surely.

 

[monkers]

It's chromosomes. They carry DNA. If you have a Y chromosome you are biologically male.

It's much more complicated than that. Some women have female bodies but the Y chromosome.

Just because gametes are binary, it does not follow that all aspects and characteristics of sex are.

Apart from the discovery that more women have XY chromosomes than previously assumed, the researchers were also surprised about the variation in when these girls and women discover that something is different.

https://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/#:~:text=These girls do not discover,male characteristics are never expressed.

 

[AndyRM]

Why do they officially record times, course records, your sex and age, at all if it's just a fun run? Why publish any results? You could time yourself on your watch if you wanted. If they are going to record times and publish results, it should be done with fairness taken into account surely.

Parkrun is only as competitive as some people choose to make it. Of the five I've volunteered in make happen, those who make it competitive are a tiny minority.

The times are just times, no medals are handed out, no prizes, it's all about inclusivity.

 

[monkers]

I'll just say it again, just because human gametes are binary in their function, it does not follow that all that pertains to sex is binary.

Here's Forrest. No not Gump, but this guy ...
... 30 minutes of your life to watch the whole thing, but if you still choose to believe AS at the end of this, then your field of view just might be a bit too narrow.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szf4hzQ5ztg

 

[multitool]

You might not give a toss that transwomen like Austin Killips and Cara Dixon hold records in the Womens category on Strava but perhaps the women do.

You don't speak for them.

You tried that last week when you posted that picture of a TW on 1st spot on a podium with nobody on 2nd and 3rd, and tried to present it that the cis women were so disgusted that they didn't attend the ceremony.

When I posted a link to an interview with the actual 2nd place cis-woman, who said she was speaking out because she was sick of people like you speaking for her when in fact she didn't care that a TW won, your response was typically dishonest of you: 'I just posted a photo'.

 

[icowden]

It's much more complicated than that. Some women have female bodies but the Y chromosome.

That's not what the article says?

You cannot see it if you do not know what you are looking for. One in 15,000 males is born and grows up as a girl. And neither these girls nor their parents know it. These girls do not discover anything different until puberty.

“Girls born with XY chromosomes are genetically boys but for a variety of reasons – mutations in genes that determine sexual development – the male characteristics are never expressed. They live their lives as girls and then women, and a few can even give birth. Our research, which is the first nationwide survey in the world, shows that this group is up to 50% larger than previously assumed. How these girls discover the facts and talk openly about their situation also varies greatly,” explains Claus Højbjerg Gravholt, who led the study and is Clinical Professor in the Department of Clinical Medicine of Aarhus University.

Thus for the small number of people who are DSD, questions are raised as to whether it is fair for them to compete in sport against people who have no chance of beating them.

 

[monkers]

You might not give a toss that transwomen like Austin Killips and Cara Dixon hold records in the Womens category on Strava but perhaps the women do.

Even I accidentally appear on segment leader boards on Strava and the like. You can't tell me that's elite level sport when my max power is less than half what a pro would make and for about a tenth of the time. You're kidding yourself that this is important. It really isn't.

 

[icowden]

Even I accidentally appear on segment leader boards on Strava and the like. You can't tell me that's elite level sport when my max power is less than half what a pro would make and for about a tenth of the time. You're kidding yourself that this is important. It really isn't.

People find that it is when the segments are at the very top level. There was a great article I read some time ago about a guy who faked his strava records which showed he was the worlds fastest up several record climbs.

 

[monkers]

That's not what the article says?

Thus for the small number of people who are DSD, questions are raised as to whether it is fair for them to compete in sport against people who have no chance of beating them.

I didn't mention sport, you are shifting goal posts. I correctly challenged your assertion that if you have a Y chromosome then you are male.

Sex is not binary and immutable - watch the video I linked above where it is explained. There is such a large range of variations.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I didn't mention sport, you are shifting goal posts. I correctly challenged your assertion that if you have a Y chromosome then you are male.

Sex is not binary and immutable - watch the video I linked above where it is explained. There is such a large range of variations.

Indeed. I'd imagine the chromosomal abnormalities are a medical specialism of their own.