Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

From unbeatable record as a man, to coming 3rd from last as a woman. That's some incredible "retained male advantage".

Lol. 3rd from last in one race. They've barely ridden since transitioning and times don't seem to be available so hard to compare how they would place against females in the same race. It's hardly in Bridges' interests to do well in any races though, seeing as their long term future in the sport is dependent on showing they can't do as well as before. Just like the Loughborough study they are taking part in - it's marking your own homework in effect.

Now do Lia Thomas and compare their national placing as a male with their placing as a female.

Could that be because 5-ard "...is a condition that affects male sexual development before birth and during puberty. People with this condition are genetically male, with one X and one Y chromosome in each cell, and they have male gonads (testes)."

Yes, athletes with this dsd are biological males. That's the whole point. Allowing them to enter the women's category is therefore unfair, however difficult their personal background is, and whether they have reduced testosterone or not.

Maybe, maybe not.
If you have a trans man, not on testosterone, riding in the women's category on a regular basis, how long before questions are raised about them competing in the wrong section/class?
Especially if there is a case of sour grapes going round.

Why would people complain if they are in the correct riding class and not taking testosterone? They have no advantage. The BC regs still allow people to use the changing rooms of the gender they identify as.

 

[multitool]

Lol. 3rd from last in one race. Now do Lia Thomas and compare their national placing as a male with their placing as a female.

Aurora, the champion of cherry-picking one data point, and ignoring the rest because it contradicts her line.

In a race during January 2022 at a meet against UPenn's Ivy League rival Yale, Thomas finished in 6th place in the 100m freestyle race, losing to four cisgender women and Iszac Henig, a transgender man, who transitioned without hormone therapy.

Also, data...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...omas-trans-swimmer-ron-desantis-b2091218.html

By the way, Aurora, I've just been out and done 55 miles at 19mph (had to wait for others).

How has your cycling gone today?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Exceptional women will beat some good males. This isn't news. Doesn't mean that on average males with the same ability don't have an advantage.

Thomas was mid 500th's in the national rankings as a male, and is now a top ranked swimmer in the female divisions.

"During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. As her career at Penn wrapped, she moved to fifth, first and eighth in those respective events on the women’s deck".

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.c...imes-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/

So basically, unless a transwoman comes first they have no advantage is what you are saying. If any biological women can beat them, that's evidence the transwoman has no advantage.

 

[multitool]

Another misrepresentation. LOL.

 

[classic33]

Lol. 3rd from last in one race. They've barely ridden since transitioning and times don't seem to be available so hard to compare how they would place against females in the same race. It's hardly in Bridges' interests to do well in any races though, seeing as their long term future in the sport is dependent on showing they can't do as well as before. Just like the Loughborough study they are taking part in - it's marking your own homework in effect.

Now do Lia Thomas and compare their national placing as a male with their placing as a female.

Yes, athletes with this dsd are biological males. That's the whole point. Allowing them to enter the women's category is therefore unfair, however difficult their personal background is, and whether they have reduced testosterone or not.

How many are there, give a number please.
You have pushed, often laboured, the point that those people* with DSD's are women only.

Why would people complain if they are in the correct riding class and not taking testosterone? They have no advantage. The BC regs still allow people to use the changing rooms of the gender they identify as.

In the same way as you are now.
There'll be calls saying that the person shouldn't be allowed to compete in the class they are in, because they might have an "unfair" advantage.

*It is people we are talking about.

 

[AuroraSaab]

How many are there, give a number please.

How many would there need to be before it was a problem for you? All 3 medallists in the 2016 800m Olympics were 5-ard athletes. Look back at the thread and you will see the names if you are interested. Or you could Google it.

You have pushed, often laboured, the point that those people* with DSD's are women only.

I have never said this. Some disorders affect males, others affect females. Only some dsd's are relevant to athletic performance.

In the same way as you are now.
There'll be calls saying that the person shouldn't be allowed to compete in the class they are in, because they might have an "unfair" advantage.

A transman who isn't taking testosterone wouldn't have an unfair advantage in a Women's race so I can't see anyone complaining.

 

[classic33]

How many would there need to be before it was a problem for you? All 3 medallists in the 2016 800m Olympics were 5-ard athletes. Look back at the thread and you will see the names if you are interested. Or you could Google it.

I have never said this. Some disorders affect males, others affect females. Only some dsd's are relevant to athletic performance.

A transman who isn't taking testosterone wouldn't have an unfair advantage in a Women's race so I can't see anyone complaining.

What you're saying is that the podium positions, in the women's 800 metres final were all men! I thought they had their own final, won by David Rudisha.
Did they get the podium wrong?

You've already agreed that 5-ard affects men only. And that talking about people living with serious medical conditions is just bonkers, and people who do it are only doing it to bolster their arguments.
Question is why are you mocking people who are living with serious medical conditions?

I've used two, that I'm living with, but that's talking about myself. And how I'm affected by them.

As for your first "question", I'd have no problem so I'm not able to give a figure.

What level do you compete at?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Question is why are you mocking people who are living with serious medical conditions?

I have never done this and I'm a bit tired of trying to answer your strange interpretations of what are usually pretty straightforward posts.

 

[icowden]

Well, a victory for freedom of speech at last.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65714821

 

[newfhouse]

Well, a victory for freedom of speech at last.

Hurrah for the culture war victors; down with the victims, may they forever look over their shoulders in fear.

 

[multitool]

Well, a victory for freedom of speech at last.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65714821

Protest is freedom of speech.

That thought probably hadn't occured to you. Nor the enormous differential in power between protestors, none of whom you can name, and a woman who seems to be able to get herself amplified in mainstream media whenever she wants.

You probably bought into the lie that she was hounded out of her job, too, didn't you, without noticing the sudden increase in her exposure. From unknown minor university lecturer to media star with invites to Oxford debating union.

 

[icowden]

Protest is freedom of speech.

Absolutely. But the protestors wanted to silence those speaking, which isn't.

That thought probably hadn't occured to you. Nor the enormous differential in power between protestors, none of whom you can name, and a woman who seems to be able to get herself amplified in mainstream media whenever she wants.

It's just so easy. Just say that you don't think men can be women and you get free publicity at the cost of your job and security. It's just win win isn't it?

You probably bought into the lie that she was hounded out of her job, too, didn't you, without noticing the sudden increase in her exposure. From unknown minor university lecturer to media star with invites to Oxford debating union.

Oh of course - she only left to increase her media exposure. She has no interest in her academic subject and being allowed to lecture without being "cancelled" by dimwits.

 

[icowden]

Hurrah for the culture war victors; down with the victims, may they forever look over their shoulders in fear.

Oh come on. That's just nonsense. There are no victims, just people who want to suppress other people, and by doing it they enable those right wing fascists that people are so fond of mentioning support the TERFs.

 

[multitool]

It's just so easy. Just say that you don't think men can be women and you get free publicity at the cost of your job and security. It's just win win isn't it?

As I suspected. You swallowed the lie.
She left for a new job, because that is what people sometimes do. She wasn't forced out, and was backed at all times by her employer.

She has no interest in her academic subject and being allowed to lecture without being "cancelled" by dimwits.

I think you'll find she was straying from her 'subject' a little bit. It's the Jordan Peterson model, icow.

Little challenge for you. Google her name. See how many pages of links you find, and where they are from, then come back and tell us whether all of this has harmed her career.

 

[multitool]

There are no victims

And there we have it, Ladies and Gentlemen, and non-binaries.

Icow has spoken.