Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

Didn't you once say you'd had hateful mail from JK Rowling? Can you give me a direct quote of the bigoted things she's said? Her own words, not a link to some dodgy hit piece. Just one quote will do.

Why should she have to disclose, to anyone, something that was sent in a private e-mail?
Least of all yourself.

 

[icowden]

Here is Keen openly boasting that she lied about being a lesbian in order to harass a member of staff on a train for wearing a pride lanyard.

But that isn't what she is doing, is it? She apologises for lying about being a lesbian in order to challenge a gay member of train staff about his trans inclusivity lanyard or badge. No mention is made of pride, and it wouldn't make any sense for her to be offended by a Pride badge or lanyard. She clearly makes the point that she finds trans-inclusivity to be anti-lesbian.

No mention of Nazis.

 

[icowden]

Since Aurora doesn't like Aiden Comerford's tweets because he, like her, is always taking about trans issues, here is Shaun, letting KJK expose herself for the little fascist she is...

OK - I watched this one. KJK believes and states that she feels that her definition of victory would be to stop medical transitioning. Please explain how preventing people from mutilating themselves is fascism? We don't amputate limbs from people who want it done, but we do allow very young people to have cosmetic mastectomies and give them hormone treatment and bottom surgery. Can we really be sure that that is a good idea?

 

[monkers]

But that isn't what she is doing, is it? She apologises for lying about being a lesbian in order to challenge a gay member of train staff about his trans inclusivity lanyard or badge. No mention is made of pride, and it wouldn't make any sense for her to be offended by a Pride badge or lanyard. She clearly makes the point that she finds trans-inclusivity to be anti-lesbian.

Before we defend this behaviour, I wonder if people understand how this makes me feel? Here as a lesbian woman I am told by this woman that I am anti-lesbian because I don't agree with her views on trans people. As if further proof was needed that she is deranged.

 

[multitool]

But that isn't what she is doing, is it? She apologises for lying about being a lesbian in order to challenge a gay member of train staff about his trans inclusivity lanyard or badge. No mention is made of pride, and it wouldn't make any sense for her to be offended by a Pride badge or lanyard. She clearly makes the point that she finds trans-inclusivity to be anti-lesbian.

No mention of Nazis.

God you are thick.

 

[icowden]

God you are thick.

Takes one to know one. Or is it just possible that she didn't say what you thought she said and you are incapable of mounting any defence, therefore you resort to name calling.

yes. I'll go with that one.

 

[icowden]

Before we defend this behaviour, I wonder if people understand how this makes me feel? Here as a lesbian woman I am told by this woman that I am anti-lesbian because I don't agree with her views on trans people. As if further proof was needed that she is deranged.

I don't think she mentioned you. Or do you speak for all Lesbians?

I'm pretty sure that there are differing opinions within the Lesbian community. I'm certainly aware of Lesbian groups that have expressed concerns about lesbian transwomen.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Half a dozen posts of Whataboutery. Many vulnerable males are accommodated within the male estate - old men, gay men, disabled men, mentally vulnerable men - and the suicide rate is high for all of them. You could put your effort into supporting transwomen in the male estate but you'd rather put it into getting them/keeping in women's prisons.

KJK believes and states that she feels that her definition of victory would be to stop medical transitioning. Please explain how preventing people from mutilating themselves is fascism? We don't amputate limbs from people who want it done, but we do allow very young people to have cosmetic mastectomies and give them hormone treatment and bottom surgery. Can we really be sure that that is a good idea?

If young people were given therapy and the watchful waiting approach, meaning that body/gender issues resolved on their own - as they mostly do - isn't that better than irreversible changes by drugs and surgeries that cannot be undone?

Wouldn't it be better if people could look and dress how they like without being pressured to go down a medicalised route?

Children and adults should all have access to appropriate in depth psychological care before undertaking irreversible changes for what is not a medical problem. It's not 'Nazi' to think that reconciling yourself to your sexed body is a better outcome than unnecessary double maestectomies.

You have to ask why so many adults are pushing for kids to go down the medical surgery route though.

 

[multitool]

Could we have an impartial (or at least informed) view from one of the forum statistical-analysis experts on this? Is Mr @multitool available?

I think we know Monkers's maths is correct.

Well, icow won't, but the rest of us do.

 

[monkers]

I don't think she mentioned you. Or do you speak for all Lesbians?

I'm pretty sure that there are differing opinions within the Lesbian community. I'm certainly aware of Lesbian groups that have expressed concerns about lesbian transwomen.

I think multitool must be right. You'd have to be thick to believe that I was claiming to speak for anyone but myself.

 

[monkers]

You could put your effort into supporting transwomen in the male estate but you'd rather put it into getting them/keeping in women's prisons.

Followed up with another farking lie.

You really can't stop it can you.

I've never said that all trans women should be in the female prison estate. I have consistently said that the policy of risk assessment for placement should be followed because it works.

When the policy wasn't followed, eg Karen White, then there was failure. When the policy is followed, such as the last four years, then it works.

This is important because it completely debunks the nonsense argument that the danger of self-ID gives trans people unfettered access to the female prison estate by trans prisoners. It's bollocks because they don't.

Your credibility is down the toilet.

 

[classic33]

I'm pretty sure that she is actually pro women having autonomy over their own bodies?
I thought her platform was about really trying to stop youngsters having irreversible medical interventions on the basis of very little evidence that it helps.

One of the points in the documentary illustrated somewhat heavy handedly with the children's book about billy the walrus, is that if Billy says that he is a walrus, we don't offer irreversible walrus surgery and interventions to turn him into a walrus. If on the other hand Billy says he is a girl, we do offer irreversible surgery and interventions, and therefore raises the question as to why we are treating one cohort of people differently to say people who identify as transabled and want a limb removed.

There's support for elective surgery to help them.
https://daily.jstor.org/the-complicated-issue-of-transableism/

With some surgeons putting it on a par with plastic surgery done because people feel their body isn't "right", and want it "correcting".

 

[classic33]

Followed up with another farking lie.

You really can't stop it can you.

I've never said that all trans women should be in the female prison estate. I have consistently said that the policy of risk assessment for placement should be followed because it works.

When the policy wasn't followed, eg Karen White, then there was failure. When the policy is followed, such as the last four years, then it works.

This is important because it completely debunks the nonsense argument that the danger of self-ID gives trans people unfettered access to the female prison estate by trans prisoners. It's bollocks because they don't.

Your credibility is down the toilet.

Men's or women's?

 

[monkers]

I'm now persuaded by the AuroraSaab / Icowden school of reasoning.

I think the EqA should be amended to exclude breast augmentation surgery for everyone because some trans women have elected for it.

I'm persuaded because on the evidence of today's posting, I've never seen such a pair of tits.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Plenty of gays and lesbians are very much 'LGB without the T' and they seem to support and be welcomed by KJK, which contradicts the 'She's a Nazi' thing a bit.

I've never said that all trans women should be in the female prison estate. I have consistently said that the policy of risk assessment for placement should be followed because it works.

The 'case by case' assessment was likely followed for the ones who committed the assaults recorded in the stats. It was correctly followed for Karen White. That's how they got to be in women's prisons in the first place. It shows the whole policy didn't work. It's what you get when you let activists write policy. (As in Scotland too).

https://fairplayforwomen.com/prison-review/

This is important because it completely debunks the nonsense argument that the danger of self-ID gives trans people unfettered access to the female prison estate by trans prisoners. It's bollocks because they don't.

Proper self ID would give transwomen access to all female single sex spaces - it's not self ID otherwise. If self ID laws were passed it seems very unlikely that pressure groups like Stonewall are going to let there be any exceptions. In fact it's in their objectives to do away with all the single sex exemptions of the Equality Act.

Your credibility is down the toilet.

Lol. Good job the arguments against your batsh*t gender ideology nonsense rest on science, evolution, and common sense then isn't it.

I'm now persuaded by the AuroraSaab / Icowden school of reasoning.

I think the EqA should be amended to exclude breast augmentation surgery for everyone because some trans women have elected for it.

Well you can have implants removed. You can't replace unnecessary double maestectomies or severed penises. You can't replace hair lost through testosterone or make a deep voice high again. Or reverse infertility or loss of sexual function.

If anybody wants to see what Monkers is cheering on, Google 'top surgery' or 'trans man phallus surgery'.