Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

I could put a dozen news reports up of how gender identity over riding sex has harmed women and girls, and title it 'A price worth paying?'. Your response would be 'Yes, but this hardly ever happens... this case is an outlier..... it doesn't really matter anyway.... it's just a few ....'

'A price worth paying?' Not a price likely to be paid by any of you lot anyway.

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I've just googled "Reduxx", the source of your so-called news item.

It's an anti-trans website.

Next you'll be telling us that 'Britain First' is a reliable source of information on race issues.

And you wonder why everyone thinks you are an actual idiot.

 

[newfhouse]

I wonder if we can agree that harm can be caused by fear and intolerance as well as by weak risk assessment of inmates and poor safeguarding in the carceral estate?

Given that, is it possible to engage in a calculus of relative misery? How many women glimpsing a vestigial penis in a changing room are we willing to tolerate to save kids from sports day genital inspections? Or vice versa, obviously.

 

[multitool]

Just done a bit more googling about Aurora's so-called 'Shakira Reid' story.Another outlet "Voz media" carrying same alleged story. Nobody else.

Sounds really legit doesn't it.

No wonder Aurora holds the views she does. Again, the parallels with literally every other fake-conspiracy cult are stark. Fake media output by outlets you've never heard of. Lapped up by the gullible because they are already captured.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Well, at least you are now admitting you are aligned with Nazis

Lol. It's you that cheers on the authoritarian men dressed in black who break up meetings and threaten to murder women. You rejoice in the violence and intimidation against women that is such a feature of transactivism.

Between you telling women they should stay home if they want to watch a certain film and Monkers telling women and girls not to go swimming if they don't want to see a penis in the women's changing rooms, it's a surprise you think women should be allowed out all.

I've just googled "Reduxx", the source of your so-called news item. It's an anti-trans website.
Next you'll be telling us that 'Britain First' is a reliable source of information on race issues.
And you wonder why everyone thinks you are an actual idiot.

It's a feminist website that picks up news stories that concern women, often amplifying ones from elsewhere. Your favourite source seems to be Pink News so I'm not sure journalistic integrity is your forte.

I'd love to know how much they had to pay Julie Bindel to settle her libel claim against them.

 

[multitool]

Lol. It's you that cheers on the authoritarian men dressed in black who break up meetings and threaten to murder women. You rejoice in the violence and intimidation against women that is such a feature of transactivism.

Between you telling women they should stay home if they want to watch a certain film and Monkers telling women and girls not to go swimming if they don't want to see a penis in the women's changing rooms, it's a surprise you think women should be allowed out all.



It's a feminist website that picks up news stories that concern women, often amplifying ones from elsewhere. Your favourite source seems to be Pink News so I'm not sure journalistic integrity is your forte.

I'd love to know how much they had to pay Julie Bindel to settle her libel claim against them.

Literally every item is anti-trans.

Do your due diligence, you mug.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Given that, is it possible to engage in a calculus of relative misery? How many women glimpsing a vestigial penis in a changing room are we willing to tolerate to save kids from sports day genital inspections? Or vice versa, obviously.

Just sounds like you are mocking the idea that women and girls might be distressed about seeing naked men in their vulnerable spaces to be honest.

 

[multitool]

Happens every day. Can't move for vestigial penises on the loose in women's changes rooms.

My wife says she has to run the gauntlet of them everything she goes for a swim.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Given that, is it possible to engage in a calculus of relative misery? How many women glimpsing a vestigial penis in a changing room are we willing to tolerate to save kids from sports day genital inspections? Or vice versa, obviously.

Are you being serious? Is this an attempt at humour?

 

[newfhouse]

Just sounds like you are mocking the idea that women and girls might be distressed about seeing naked men in their vulnerable spaces to be honest.

I’m not mocking the idea of distress, simply pointing out (again) that both extremes in this argument can cause damage and pain.

Would you agree that there’s a balance to be struck, one that accepts that harm will be done whatever we choose but seeks to minimise it? My view is that the optimal situation lies somewhere other than at the ends of the spectrum. And no, I don’t know exactly where.

 

[multitool]

Love how bobsmyuncle has to explicitly ask if something is humour or not.

Bless.

 

[newfhouse]

Are you being serious? Is this an attempt at humour?

An attempt to illustrate a serious point, yes. I’m sorry that you don’t seem to care for the delivery method.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

An attempt to illustrate a serious point, yes. I’m sorry that you don’t seem to care for the delivery method.

That's ok, Tool appears to have appreciated it. You've done yourself proud.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I’m not mocking the idea of distress, simply pointing out (again) that both extremes in this argument can cause damage and pain.

It did sound like you were minimising it. I'm sure you appreciate that there are men who get off on being in women's spaces, and exposing their genitals. There are also people who seek to normalise this stuff around kids. They aren't uncommon occurances.

Would you agree that there’s a balance to be struck, one that accepts that harm will be done whatever we choose but seeks to minimise it? My view is that the optimal situation lies somewhere other than at the ends of the spectrum. And no, I don’t know exactly where.

Yes. Not everybody can get what they want. Unisex third spaces and separate single sex provision alongside mixed sex provision would be a start. Guess what though? Transactivists don't want this. They just want completely free access to women's single sex spaces.

We've seen the reception the idea of an Open category in sports gets on here.

A separate prison wing for transwomen in male prisons seems sensible. Trans provision in rape counselling and domestic violence refuges, with separate provision for women seems ideal. All unacceptable to transactivists.

What compromises are transactivists prepared to make? I haven't seen any.

 

[theclaud]

For all your moaning about hatred on here, there's not one of you who have called out the intimidation and violence of transactivists against women who are meeting perfectly legally within the law, or even just trying to do their jobs, whether it's KJ Keen or Kathleen Stock. You've either celebrated it with glee, dismissed it as 'Just the youngsters getting a bit carried away' or basically said 'Nazis get what they deserve'.

And then you blame women for starting a culture war that you frame as a right wing endeavour. Men in women's prisons is not a left wing or progressive position. That it has become one shows how willingly the left will listen to men but not to women.

1. K.J. Keen is not 'trying to do her job'. That's the most ridiculous thing you've written so far. What is this 'job' that she is just trying to do?

2. I was initially sympathetic to Stock, because I don't like the policing or prescription of academics' views, but then it turns out that a) the impression that she's been fired or hounded out of her job is not quite what it seems b) she's allowed her sense of martyrdom to take over and become a single-issue bore c) she has a much bigger platform and reach than she had before and d) beyond her own supposed cancellation she appears to have no interest in actual and urgent threats to academic freedom of speech, and even entire disciplines, from the same political actors that have jumped on her bandwagon.

She's also quite boring as a philosopher of literature (her actual field). I wouldn't hold this against her in itself, but there's undoubtedly a reactionary backlash against the contemporary paradigm shifts in the humanities that inform a lot of young people's thinking on issues of justice and equality.

 

[AuroraSaab]

1. K.J. Keen is not 'trying to do her job'. That's the most ridiculous thing you've written so far. What is this 'job' that she is just trying to do?

I meant Kathleen Stock, though others have been targeted as well.

2. I was initially sympathetic to Stock, because I don't like the policing or prescription of academics' views, but then it turns out that a) the impression that she's been fired or hounded out of her job is not quite what it seems b) she's allowed her sense of martyrdom to take over and become a single-issue bore c) she has a much bigger platform and reach than she had before and d) beyond her own supposed cancellation she appears to have no interest in actual and urgent threats to academic freedom of speech, and even entire disciplines, from the same political actors that have jumped on her bandwagon.

She was hounded out of her job to the point that police said it wasn't safe to go into work. You'd just brush off a poster campaign against you and masked blokes with flares at your workplace, I suppose.

She's made the best of an unfortunate situation. You seem disappointed that she's not financially ruined or destroyed psychologically. No punishment is ever enough, is it?

She's also quite boring as a philosopher of literature (her actual field). I wouldn't hold this against her in itself, but there's undoubtedly a reactionary backlash against the contemporary paradigm shifts in the humanities that inform a lot of young people's thinking on issues of justice and equality.

Stock is a much better writer than McKinnon, the god awful Judith Butler, and your mate Finn McKay. The paradigm shift has been the abandonment of critical thinking and the idea that subjective feelings matter more than material reality.