Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

I think, historically, male>female transition was, by some distance, outstripping the number going female to male.

No idea why that should be but if I'm right then it might explain the numbers.

There are explanations out there. There are plenty of trans people who have written autobiographies, who write blogs, or have youtube channels.

Over time, there has been law that has oppressed LGBT people. Homosexuality between men was only decriminalised in 1967. But that decriminalisation was only partial, and the treatment of gay men actually worsened from 1967, including but not limited to Thatcher's Section 28.

The UK made real progress in the Blair years, with some further advances in the period of the coalition that followed. Since then, things have been sliding backwards, with the expression of homophobic and transphobic views being commonplace.

Mapping the age of queer people against that history is revealing. Their self-repression maps the government oppression and the accompanying societal suppression and assertions of what it is to be 'normal' have caused the confidence of being able to live an open and authentic life to be cyclical.

This along with the common cycles of family life, you know get married, have kids, get a divorce, along with redundancy from work, menopause, mid-life crisis, people ask themselves, what is the point of this? Just as all the T shirts suggest, too old for this shoot, it's now time to spend the kid's inheritance. People are declaring it's their life and their time to take control of it.

 

[monkers]

And why are you participating in this thread. @monkers has been quite clear that gender incongruence is not a mental health issue, so what qualifies you to discourse on the subject?

Well this is a twist.

What I've said is what the world's most foremost team of medical experts has decided. I haven't said that I've decided. What is quite clear to me is that on the balance of probabilities that the WHO is better-placed to know than a software developer or data entry clerk or whatever your work happens to entail.

In a previous reply I said 'chronology dear boy'. This isn't such a flippant answer as you think. The GRA comes from 2004, a time before the WHO made that declaration. It is of its time, and I don't doubt that the law was passed in good faith and satisfied the views of a majority of our legislators. But it is now out-of-date because it no longer reflects what is known, besides which the terminology is now outdated.

Since 2004 there have been two all party select committees measuring the evidence of interested parties. Both reports made recommendations to government. The second one was accepted by Theresa May in full. We've gone from that to talk of conversion therapy bans, to saying that all forms of conversion therapy or wrong and cruel, to saying 'well let's keep them for trans people'.

Ultimately diagnosis of gender incongruence is Self-ID, there is no diagnostic test. We should accept that people are who they say they, with the obvious caveat that people can not say they are trans when they are not in order to access spaces they have shown they are not safe to be in.

 

[monkers]

I think you probably missed the bit where I developed software and now specialise in data analysis and extraction particularly around NHS datasets.

God help us - Unkraut kindly have a word with him/her would you?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think, historically, male>female transition was, by some distance, outstripping the number going female to male.

No idea why that should be but if I'm right then it might explain the numbers.

You are right. Why is that? Surely you can accept that there are a large number of men for whom dressing in stereotypical women's clothes is a paraphilia? These people are now under the transgender umbrella. There's no differentiation between them and people with lifelong dysphoria.

Which wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't a huge push for access to women's single sex spaces for all those who say 'I am a woman'.

Ultimately diagnosis of gender incongruence is Self-ID, there is no diagnostic test.

We should accept that people are who they say they, with the obvious caveat that people can not say they are trans when they are not in order to access spaces they have shown they are not safe to be in.

Men have been shown to be unsafe around vulnerable women for hundreds of years so that caveat applies to their single sex spaces, regardless of how that man identifies. Again though, how do we know who is genuinely trans? Lots of men are lovely. They don't expect access because they understand that being male is a factor in itself in making women feel vulnerable.

If it's not a mental illness, why does it require medication and in some cases surgery?

This hierarchy of genuine transness that you propose is very interesting. It completely undermines the innate gender identity theory and the whole 'the child knows best who they are' mantra that underpins the Affirmation model. It allows you to offload the transwomen sex offenders rather than acknowledge that self ID poses issues though, I suppose.

 

[monkers]

If it's not a mental illness, why does it require medication and in some cases surgery?

Head and shoulders is a medicated shampoo. Pityriasis capitis is a mental illness?

 

[AuroraSaab]

It doesn't require a prescription so hardly the same. Bit crass to compare dandruff to a double mastectomy.

 

[icowden]

What I've said is what the world's most foremost team of medical experts has decided. I haven't said that I've decided. What is quite clear to me is that on the balance of probabilities that the WHO is better-placed to know than a software developer or data entry clerk or whatever your work happens to entail.

And what I have pointed out is that they haven't. All that they have done is change the classification in ICD11 which isn't in use yet. All other classifications are mental health.

 

[multitool]

Surely you can accept that there are a large number of men for whom dressing in stereotypical women's clothes is a paraphilia?

Based on what evidence?

 

[icowden]

You were claiming some sort of specialist knowledge that meant your views carry more weight than otherwise.

Show me where I claimed that. Other than experience working within the health service and dealing with some of this stuff.

Looks like you've been caught with your pants down, icow, you little fibber

Fvck off bullying cvnt. Do you know what. I really hate muting people but I think for you I might make an exception. You really are crass.

 

[Bromptonaut]

You are right. Why is that? Surely you can accept that there are a large number of men for whom dressing in stereotypical women's clothes is a paraphilia? These people are now under the transgender umbrella. There's no differentiation between them and people with lifelong dysphoria.

I had to look up the word paraphilia which is not in my (Collins) dictionary. Here's what Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia

I know it's not a source but it'll link to places that are.

Are you saying that men cross dress in large numbers to become sexually aroused? I guess it's possible but if that's why they're doing it I'm not sure they'd regard themselves as being under the transgender umbrella. I think you can differentiate them from folks with gender incongruence, lifelong or otherwise.

 

[multitool]

Fvck off bullying cvnt. Do you know what. I really hate muting people but I think for you I might make an exception. You really are crass.

"Fụck off bullying cụnt"? In what way am I bullying you, icow?

Seems quite an extreme reaction to nothing.

 

[multitool]

I had to look up the word paraphilia which is not in my (Collins) dictionary. Here's what Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia

I know it's not a source but it'll link to places that are.

Are you saying that men cross dress in large numbers to become sexually aroused? I guess it's possible but if that's why they're doing it I'm not sure they'd regard themselves as being under the transgender umbrella. I think you can differentiate them from folks with gender incongruence, lifelong or otherwise.

It's a standard attack line in the transphobe cult. They actually have their own lexicon. They'd probably be referring to autogynophelia, or AGP.

It's just another way to other TW and cast them as both sexually perverted and a threat.

 

[AndyRM]

"Fụck off bullying cụnt"? In what way am I bullying you, icow?

Seems quite an extreme reaction to nothing.

You're not aware of what bullying means? Your Google-Fu really is slipping.

 

[multitool]

Jeez. Not this dull tosser

 

[AndyRM]

Jeez. Not this dull tosser

'Fraid so.

Sorry, Ronnie.