Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

You could have all the surgery, hormone supplements . If their body was to be dug up after a hundred years and their DNA was examined, it would reveal they were a male.

Every cell in the body has the markers indicating they were male or female.

You cannot change your sex.

First thing I always do when I meet someone is shake their hand, harvest some sweat and cells, send it off and see if their DNA matches their presentation. I don't speak to them again until I get the lab report - you just can't be too careful these days.

 

[icowden]

No. You've pointed out that in the SMEGHEAD system in use, that the available field for you expert typists to type a cross is not a valid field. That doesn't change or overrule the WHO.

But the fact that the WHO use SNOMED which hasn't changed it's coding would seem to contradict the changes in ICD11 which isn't in use. Currently ICD10 and SNOMED are aligned and that is what is used by the NHS and by the WHO.

 

[monkers]

But the fact that the WHO use SNOMED which hasn't changed it's coding would seem to contradict the changes in ICD11 which isn't in use. Currently ICD10 and SNOMED are aligned and that is what is used by the NHS and by the WHO.

You've said that SMEGHEAD is the international data system. The WHO is the international body for human health. Which should be the body with responsibility for world heath, the WHO or the league of one-handed typists?

 

[AndyRM]

I'll pass on that. He seems to rock up wherever I post looking for a fight. But, yes, it's tedious for everyone else to have to plough through.

You flatter yourself.

 

[Deleted member 121]

So you, @multitool, @monkers etc are all qualified mental health professionals? Why didn't you say so!

Nope I'm not a mental health professional, nor have I pretended to be. You were insinuating in my view that you were when you were questioned about how difficult it was to get an autism diagnosis and you responded with a claim and since I remembered a previous claim by yourself which seemed to contradict that one I decided to seek clarification on your experience which I have said maybe three times now.

You see rather than just shouting at people and being rude, I prefer to have a discussion.

I again don't believe I was being rude nor shouting at people. I do believe it rude to question someone or respond to someone while claiming to have a wealth of experience in one area in an attempt to seek authority on the subject but then not really have the credentials or have elevated them and then just waste everyone's time.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If they've had their testicles cut off and their penis turned inside out to make a 'vagina' are they still a bloke?

Yes, of course they are. These are cosmetic surgeries. If a man loses his penis and testicles in an accident or through illness, is he also no longer a man?

 

[Rusty Nails]

claiming to have a  wealth of experience in one area

I worked in Community Children's Services for 12 years, so am reasonably familiar with the process.

Is "reasonably familiar with the process" claiming to have a "wealth of experience"? Surely working in admin or statistical support for 12 years gives knowledge of the process and timescales, obviously without the clinical involvement


To help us decide whose arguments to put most weight on it would be quite useful if all contributors could attach their CVs, showing any expertise or academic qualifications in any of the subjects or supporting arguments referred to.

Obviously, claims of common sense, moral rectitude, fairness, or having Googled the topic extensively without appropriate qualifications will invalidate any argument.

 

[monkers]

Yes, of course they are. These are cosmetic surgeries. If a man loses his penis and testicles in an accident or through illness, is he also no longer a man?

I'll just remind you of the rigour of the process of assigning sex at birth, no chromosome or DNA testing. Girls are assigned as girls on the basis of the absence of a penis, and the presumption that everything else falls into place, which most often it does ... however.

 

[Deleted member 121]

Is "reasonably familiar with the process" claiming to have a "wealth of experience"? Surely working in admin or statistical support for 12 years gives knowledge of the process and timescales, obviously without the clinical involvement


To help us decide whose arguments to put most weight on it would be quite useful if all contributors could attach their CVs, showing any expertise or academic qualifications in any of the subjects or supporting arguments referred to.

Obviously, claims of common sense, moral rectitude, fairness, or having Googled the topic extensively without appropriate qualifications will invalidate any argument.

I think if those that claim to have experience on top of their opinions then it is actually a reasonable response to question it. If those are just weighing in with opinions rather than fact then it can be judged as such, no problem with opinions and opinions which have been declared to have been sourced from X study or source etc.

With reference to the 12 years in community children's services, icowden has clarified this. IMO his experience seems on par with asking a receptionist at a GP surgery medical advice rather than a GP.

 

[classic33]

Research. This study says 2.8% of men, and 0.4% of women. Which would equate to 600,000 men over 18 in the UK.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15859369/

Based on a study of 2,540 of 18 - 60 year olds in Sweden. Less than 0.05% of that age group.
Not really a representative quantity/number, is it.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Yes, of course they are. These are cosmetic surgeries. If a man loses his penis and testicles in an accident or through illness, is he also no longer a man?

Having twice been called dickless, as a rather pathetic, juvenile insult, on this forum in recent days I just want it put on record that I am not and have no intention of, transitioning.

To avoid charges of bigotry I also want it put on record that I have no issues with people who are going or have gone through the difficult process of transitioning, whether they are dickless or not.

I think if those that claim to have experience on top of their opinions then it is actually a reasonable response to question it. If those are just weighing in with opinions rather than fact then it can be judged as such, no problem with opinions and opinions which have been declared to have been sourced from X study or source etc.

With reference to the 12 years in community children's services, icowden has clarified this. IMO his experience seems on par with asking a receptionist at a GP surgery medical advice rather than a GP.

With your detailed knowledge of his work over those 12 years from a couple of posts then "IMO" and "seems" has certainly convinced me. As you say in your first paragraph your opinion is cleary derived from a thorough study/source.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'll just remind you of the rigour of the process of assigning sex at birth, no chromosome or DNA testing. Girls are assigned as girls on the basis of the absence of a penis, and the presumption that everything else falls into place, which most often it does ... however.

Sex is observed at birth, not assigned. And it's observed correctly in all but 0.02% of cases. No dna test required, though any newborn with ambiguous genitalia gets further investigation (in the developed world anyway).

Isn't it funny how if sex is only 'assigned' at birth, years and years later the body remembers what it was assigned as and kicks off the appropriate puberty for that type of body? So clever of it to remember what it was assigned.

 

[monkers]

Sex is observed at birth, not assigned. And it's observed correctly in all but 0.02% of cases. No dna test required, though any newborn with ambiguous genitalia gets further investigation (in the developed world anyway).

Isn't it funny how if sex is only 'assigned' at birth, years and years later the body remembers what it was assigned as and kicks off the appropriate puberty for that type of body? So clever of it to remember what it was assigned.

'Assigned' seems to be the word of choice by the authorities. FWIW I also prefer the word 'observed'.

 

[classic33]

Yes, I am. I am absolutely astonished that this paraphillia seems to be news to you. It does explain how dismissive you are of women's concerns though.

"coined in 1904 by the Austrian ethnologist Friedrich Salomon Krauss. He used it to describe all kinds of variants of sexual behavior that did not serve the purpose of procreation."

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118896877.wbiehs329

By that original usage, wouldn't that include safe sex?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Having twice been called dickless, as a rather pathetic, juvenile insult, on this forum in recent days I just want it put on record that I am not and have no intention of, transitioning.

I was called 'limp dick' iirc. I am not transitioning either. Every accusation is a confession they say. So odd that some people think calling women men, or gay, or suggesting they are secretly trans, is an insult.