Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
I absolutely agree with separate spaces. My difference with AS is solely around the treatment of a tiny number of trans women.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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I absolutely agree with separate spaces. My difference with AS is solely around the treatment of a tiny number of trans women.
mudsticks
Squire
Ok, If you agree with the concept of, and need for separate spaces, that need largely being around the comfort and safety of women.
Where do you draw the line as regards who gets access to those particular spaces.?
For trans women is self ID enough?
"I am a woman because I say so"
Or "I have undergone various procedures, or talked to my doctor about disphoria, (for example) so therefore I should have access"
Who decides.??
Fwiw I'm running an event this weekend where women (including trans women ofc) and non binary people are welcomed, but men are not.
The men on the farm (including my male partner) respect this, and will absent themselves.
I think it's highly unlikely that we will get any men turning up and taking the piss by pretending to be trans women, but what would we do if that did happen.??
How would we discern?
Currently it appears there is no socially acceptable way of doing that, without being accused of 'bigotry'
For this to work smoothly, it relies on everyone being 'decent' compassionate, respectful, emotionally intelligent human beings.
Unfortunately, as we know, not the entire world is like that - hence the need for women only spaces in the first place.
I'm not talking about laws here, I'm talking about navigation of a social situation.
AuroraSaab
Squire
If you think that tiny number of transwomen should have access to women's single sex spaces and services then I don't think you do respect and understand women's need to not have men around them at certain times.
Is it your view that transwomen are a special subset of people to whom the 'I absolutely agree with separate spaces' does not apply?
D
Deleted member 159
Guest
Throughout the ages women have had their own sacred spaces (eg harems).
No other sex can enter these areas unless invited by the women in the safe place
No other sex can enter these areas unless invited by the women in the safe place
monkers
Legendary Member
Actually incorrect - but never mind because there are people out there who know otherwise, and they tend to be the ones that matter.
Take a few minutes to listen to a leading biologist ...
View: https://youtu.be/M0uCLgFMC-c
monkers
Legendary Member
That's an example of the arrangements in one culture. What about examples from other cultures that have more than two genders / gender identities? Or maybe the only ones that matter are the ones that fit with your own cognitive bias?
D
Deleted member 159
Guest
D
Deleted member 159
Guest
I bet if you look you will find in many many cultures, women had their private safe places.
Gender is a personal choice not a sex. If you decide to call yourself something else, don't expect any access to what you've decided to call yourself this week
monkers
Legendary Member
Ah gotcha. As I don't know you, I'm going to assume that you are cis het male / man saying this.
Are you one of those guys who needs to define other people along the lines of who you want to have sex with? A woman is a woman only if she has the ability to make a baby? But when you score you leave a false name and address in case she becomes pregnant with your baby?
You see in some parts of the culture that you're defending, that's actually a thing, but it's not something men want to talk about unless it's a joke right?
monkers
Legendary Member
You know that woman is a word that relates to gender? It also relates to sex in common usage, that's for two reasons.
One reason is that because through our culture there's been oppression of difference written down in law. And when that oppression is written out of law, then a bunch of people don't like it, they want the oppression to continue, because they don't like those people.
So now the craze is for some cis het men to turn up with simplistic arguments because they want to be the ones who define 'woman' in the way that they want women to be. So what is that Andy wants a woman to be? What if her chromosomes are not XX, how is Andy going to be able to tell, is she going to need to wear a pink triangle on her sleeve to reveal the fact, is Andy going to define what role she has to play in his life, or must she just walk into the sea?
The second reason is language. The English have been such sexually repressed Victorian prudes, that they've spent the last century and a half avoiding the word 'sex', except when in conversation with a doctor maybe. Then there's the usage, you can 'have sex with someone' but can you 'have gender with someone'. No. Why not? Because sex and gender are not the same thing. Because the word 'sex' has linguistic nuances, and the word 'gender' relates to what people do. 'A woman's work is never done'. Then there are men who like the gender roles of women, because women get to do the stuff that some men don't want to do.
But we've modernised out culture, and now we use the words 'sex' and 'gender' to mean the things they've always actually meant.
What feminist women have been doing is fighting against this patriarchy, and asserting they have more value than being scrubbers for men.
And what some men want to do is keep to the old definitions. So they pretend they are defending women by turning up on social media saying 'Ugg, woman mean adult human female baby machine'. Maybe you've seen too many Tizer adverts?
Meanwhile, there are women like me noticing your behaviour. Nice try Andy, but not all women are stupid.
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OP
OP
theclaud
Reading around the chip
LOL
Yes!
But you ignored the fact that people who don't go along with transgenderism can lose their jobs over this.
It is not a crime to misgender someone. Moreover there are those who refuse to use the 'wrong' pronouns as a matter of conscience. Doing so would be misgendering from their point of view, and confirming someone in a delusion.
I assume in turn you are joking!
I got the info that WHO had been influenced by activists from you!
If you compare with climate change 'the science' is so mixed with politics it is impossible to disentangle the two. It seems to me those who insist on following the science on this issue are only too quick to ditch it when it comes to gender.
You disappeared from multiquote!
I picked up this story from various Anglican sources. I also watched an interview with the teacher concerned and he did appear to be willing to make some attempt to accommodate the trans pupil.
Reading a local Oxford paper on this I was struck by the level of hatred of the teacher that appeared in the comments.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Yeah, harems isn't the best example. It was a sign of progress though that most countries eventually recognised that women needed to be able to be away from men on certain limited occasions. It's regressive that some people no longer think that. Nothing has changed in terms of that need.
To the extent female is a synonym of woman this doesn't get you very far.
I'd suggest a couple of other words. Mother being one, unalterably different from the concept of being a father, and the complement of man. Physically obviously but in many other ways as well.
That is not to say there is not a vast amount in common, but the categories male and female are distinct and not interchangeable, neither by a verbal declaration nor accompanying cosmetic surgery.
