Gender again. Sorry!

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The obvious ideal solution for toilets and changing rooms is Men's, Women's (just for actual women obvs), and unisex third space for anybody who doesn't want to use the facilities appropriate for their birth sex.

I have no issue with proper gender neutral toilets - enclosed cubicles, handwashing area open to the corridor - but not ones that are just ordinary loos.

Is there any situation, Classic, where you think girls and women do need a space or service just for them?
 
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Old guy tell it's how it is


View: https://youtu.be/hh-Z5e2lsP0
 
The obvious ideal solution for toilets and changing rooms is Men's, Women's (just for actual women obvs), and unisex third space for anybody who doesn't want to use the facilities appropriate for their birth sex.

I have no issue with proper gender neutral toilets - enclosed cubicles, handwashing area open to the corridor - but not ones that are just ordinary loos.

Is there any situation, Classic, where you think girls and women do need a space or service just for them?
Start demanding unisex toilets and you might just find that'll be what you get. It'll be cheaper to provide after all.

One set of toilets, not two. Be careful what you wish for
 
The difference is I, and many other women, don't want to be around males in the loo. The ideal solution seems to be a 3rd unisex space. If 'they only want to pee', transwomen could go in the men's.....
 
Start demanding unisex toilets and you might just find that'll be what you get. It'll be cheaper to provide after all.

One set of toilets, not two. Be careful what you wish for
Are there any situations, just one say, where women and girls should be able to be away from male bodies? A domestic violence refuge say? Or a hostel for the homeless?
 

monkers

Legendary Member
The difference is I, and many other women, don't want to be around males in the loo. The ideal solution seems to be a 3rd unisex space. If 'they only want to pee', transwomen could go in the men's.....

Here's the thing, you first said it was about women's rights, then you said it was about women's needs, and now you are reduced to saying it's about what many women want. Well there's many women who are happy to accept / welcome trans women in the women's loo. It was a non-argument all along.

Essentially, it's what you want - that's it, and what I said it was all along. So now we agree on that - it's what you want. So what?
 
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The difference is I, and many other women, don't want to be around males in the loo. The ideal solution seems to be a 3rd unisex space. If 'they only want to pee', transwomen could go in the men's.....
How many places are going to provide a fourth set of toilets though. There's three sets in many places already.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Between the seven generations (?) between Adam and Eve and Noah, you can't find any women.
Of course you can. The text provides the answer to the 'where did Cain get his wife' question. It has been asked since at least the 6th century!

The days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years; and he had other sons and daughters.

Cain's wife was either a sibling or a niece.

After Cain killed Abel he said I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will slay me. This presupposes an existing growing population to supply the whoever.

Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch. Also presupposes a growing population. A city was a walled encampment. There was building, beginning of music and the necessary intruments and skill to make them, the beginning of using metal for tools and implements, the beginning of farming.

The other objection raised here is that the first human beings had to have committed incest. The text assumes no marriage between parents and children (Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh), but initially pairing of siblings was of course necessary to continue the race. Abraham for example later married his half sister. Only much later (centuries) was incest forbidden in the law of Moses (along with other dangerous sexual practices), by which time enough genetic damage had been done to make it potentially unhealthy. We ignore it at our peril.

I don't recognise me saying anything about Walsh and editing. You sure that was me?
Sorry, I was talking more generally about people not being able to blame editing for his documentary.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
The days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years; and he had other sons and daughters.
And who were their mothers?

Adam and Eve had three sons. Where did their wives come from? Who were their parents.

Not that this matters beyond this argument on the one hand it's all about God, and on the other only biology matters.

All that really matters is that people can just go and pee. Local authorities in the UK have been closing facilities. Public loos were commonplace - not any more. So we rely on find pubs and supermarkets etc - but why should they have the burden of cost.

I'd like to see a return to public loos, but this ongoing argument is going to dissuade local authorities from considering it.

There is a real privacy issue, and not the one that Aurora is talking about, but people having to 'out' themselves to people just because they want to pee.

Appearance is not a reliable test, so pragmatism needs to take hold.
 
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Here's the thing, you first said it was about women's rights, then you said it was about women's needs, and now you are reduced to saying it's about what many women want. Well there's many women who are happy to accept / welcome trans women in the women's loo. It was a non-argument all along.

Men having access to women's single sex spaces and services is not a non argument. Toilets are the easiest thing to resolve. Many aren't happy if surveys are to be believed. Obviously other women, nor men, can consent on behalf of other women to them having to share spaces with men.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
Men having access to women's single sex spaces and services is not a non argument. Toilets are the easiest thing to resolve. Many aren't happy if surveys are to be believed. Obviously other women, nor men, can consent on behalf of other women to them having to share spaces with men.

Oh it very much is a non-argument.

We've covered this - public spaces are not private spaces. The private space is the part where you are on your own behind a closed door fitted with a lock or bolt. You are not asked to share that with anyone. In fact people who go into cubicles together are probably doing something else.

When it comes to paying for all these wants - who pays? Why should they?

Two women charged with sexual assault of trans woman in bar toilets. Always men eh?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...igh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html
 
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