Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

Top concerns of people in this country- trans debate last place @ 1%. Tories are relying on this as a vote winner in the next election while the Labour Party continue to stretch away from the Tories.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Oh it very much is a non-argument. We've covered this - public spaces are not private spaces. The private space is the part where you are on your own behind a closed door fitted with a lock or bolt.

Toilets are not the only single sex spaces, or services, as you well know. There are many others.

When it comes to paying for all these wants - who pays? Why should they?

Why should women pay a price - losing privacy, dignity, and safeguarding - in order to validate the identity of men who wish they weren't men?

Two women charged with sexual assault of trans woman in bar toilets. Always men eh?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...igh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html

98% of the time it's men. And women are invariably the victim.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Religion has a lot to answer for

Ideologues are everywhere


View: https://youtu.be/ZjKSG3yQhnA

 

[Deleted member 159]

Im going to sue my family!

wavering about my gender after reading (indoctrinated) about all these great awakenings

They blankly refused to pay for it

Ha CPS will now charge my whole family with domestic abuse charges

 

[monkers]

Toilets are not the only single sex spaces, or services, as you well know. There are many others.

That's it - shift the goalposts when you can't win the argument.

Why should women pay a price - losing privacy, dignity, and safeguarding - in order to validate the identity of men who wish they weren't men?

Who is going to pay? I'm talking money here - who pays for all the new facilities? Somebody has to pay for your wants - who pays?

Why should women pay a price - losing privacy, dignity, and safeguarding - in order to validate the identity of men who wish they weren't men?

There's no loss of privacy - one person to one cubicle. There is no loss of dignity - you're behind a closed door. Safeguarding? Trans women are not attacking women in the toilets - data doesn't support the argument. Trans women have an equal right / expectation to safety as anybody else.

98% of the time it's men. And women are invariably the victim.

It's always more men than women, but the percentage varies with situation and circumstances. Women are more often subject to violence at home or on the street. Funnily enough the data shows toilets to be about the safest place for women despite there being no cameras - probably as there is no easy escape and most often there would be a witness.

 

[Deleted member 121]

I'll have whatever Andy's on please. He's having a great ole' time.

 

[Deleted member 159]

I'll have whatever Andy's on please. He's having a great ole' time.

I've seen the truth

 

[mudsticks]

Oh it very much is a non-argument.

We've covered this - public spaces are not private spaces. The private space is the part where you are on your own behind a closed door fitted with a lock or bolt. You are not asked to share that with anyone. In fact people who go into cubicles together are probably doing something else.

When it comes to paying for all these wants - who pays? Why should they?

Two women charged with sexual assault of trans woman in bar toilets. Always men eh?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...igh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html

Love how you get all 'High Horsey' about misrepresentation of yourself, and your words, then come out with stuff like this..

"Two women charged with sexual assault of trans woman in bar toilets. Always men eh?"

No one said it was 'always' men.

But it is men often enough for women to be generally wary of them, as a group.

You know that fact, we all know that fact, so trying to make out it's otherwise, and that there aren't perfectly valid reasons for women to sometimes want their own spaces (whether or not it's a legally binding 'right') is utter tosh.

You may never have been assaulted, or sexually harassed, or raped by a man.
Or you may have been strong enough in mind and body to fight them off.

But it's a commonplace horrible experience for many women.
And often when it happens??

A slew of disbelief "Are you sure?" victim blaming, and "She was probably asking for it" .

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

Going along with Classics angle, that women are pretty much as bad as men in all this just might make your other arguments look rather questionable.

I do believe in protecting trans rights as it happens, and I do also agree that most of this hoo ha has been stirred up as a culture war distraction from the abject dereliction of duty that laughably chooses to call itself our 'Government' .

But waving away women's concerns about their own right to self protection , isn't actually helping.

 

[Deleted member 121]

I've seen the truth

Im not doubting a word of it.

 

[monkers]

Love how you get all 'High Horsey' about misrepresentation of yourself, and your words, then come out with stuff like this..

"Two women charged with sexual assault of trans woman in bar toilets. Always men eh?"

No one said it was 'always' men.

But it is men often enough for women to be generally wary of them, as a group.

You know that fact, we all know that fact, so trying to make out it's otherwise, and that there aren't perfectly valid reasons for women to sometimes want their own spaces (whether or not it's a legally binding 'right') is utter tosh.

You may never have been assaulted, or sexually harassed, or raped by a man.
Or you may have been strong enough in mind and body to fight them off.

But it's a commonplace horrible experience for many women.
And often when it happens??

A slew of disbelief "Are you sure?" victim blaming, and "She was probably asking for it" .

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

Going along with Classics angle, that women are pretty much as bad as men in all this just might make your other arguments look rather questionable.

I do believe in protecting trans rights as it happens, and I do also agree that most of this hoo ha has been stirred up as a culture war distraction from the abject dereliction of duty that laughably chooses to call itself our 'Government' .

But waving away women's concerns about their own right to self protection , isn't actually helping.

I don't see a reasonable argument in there. This is just false, personal and contains lies.

Let's put this straight - I have never blamed a victim for being the victim - actually a pretty offensive thing to say.

You actually have nothing useful to say.

The bottom line is that trans women are not attacking or assaulting women in toilets. However there is more and growing evidence that the reverse is true, and more than that, women are assaulting other women on the basis of false perception.

Just let people pee.

Street crime against young people however is a large scale / widespread problem and something we actually do need to be very concerned about.

As has been seen to be the case in London, 31% of arrests for street assaults are young women. This is a percentage of a large number.

For attacks of trans women on women in toilets we are talking about a tiny percentage of a small number. Toilets should not be the number one (oh sorry) concern for women's safety. Trans women are more likely to be attacked by men, but the anti-trans rhetoric of the GC movement is ratcheting up alarm under false pretences.

And if you want to know, this is the real victim blaming - the blaming of those more likely to be victims of crime as the perpetrators of crime.

Also polling shows that only 1% of the electorate have this debate on their minds - last place of issues.

 

[mudsticks]

I don't see a reasonable argument in there. This is just false, personal and contains lies.

Let's put this straight - I have never blamed a victim for being the victim - actually a pretty offensive thing to say.

You actually have nothing useful to say.

The bottom line is that trans women are not attacking or assaulting women in toilets. However there is more and growing evidence that the reverse is true, and more than that, women are assaulting other women on the basis of false perception.

Just let people pee.

Street crime against young people however is a large scale / widespread problem and something we actually do need to be very concerned about.

As has been seen to be the case in London, 31% of arrests for street assaults are young women. This is a percentage of a large number.

For attacks of trans women on women in toilets we are talking about a tiny percentage of a small number. Toilets should not be the number one (oh sorry) concern for women's safety. Trans women are more likely to be attacked by men, but the anti-trans rhetoric of the GC movement is ratcheting up alarm under false pretences.

And if you want to know, this is the real victim blaming - the blaming of those more likely to be victims of crime as the perpetrators of crime.

I wasn't talking about toilets..

I didn't say you personally had victim blamed, I said that's what happens to others - very frequently.

But your

"You have nothing useful to say"

Speaks volumes about your attitude to anyone with a slightly different take to yours.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Im not doubting a word of it.

https://tenor.com/MNAg.gif

 

[Deleted member 121]

Nice! I hope your date goes well.

 

[monkers]

I wasn't talking about toilets..

I didn't say you personally had victim blamed, I said that's what happens to others - very frequently.

But your

"You have nothing useful to say"

Speaks volumes about your attitude to anyone with a slightly different take to yours.

The conversation was about toilets again.

There is victim blaming going on. I'm not a guilty party to it - rather the opposite.

We need more critical thinking about how we can keep people safe. A quick risk assessment is that the most vulnerable group is young men and young women on the streets at night. These are where the big numbers are. The best data available is for London, where street assault is commonplace - with 31% of arrests made are young women.

I'm going to guess that alcohol and/or drugs feature heavily in this. It is known that lonely and unhappy people use more. This also features heavily in domestic violence.

Minority groups are more vulnerable to loneliness, isolation, unhappiness, depression, and other mental health issues. These are the real issues that need to be addressed. When it is, the safety of men, women, boys, and girls will all improve.

Blaming trans women for attacks on women is a nonsense. If it happens, it's rare, very rare.

The government cuts to public services are very real. Tories hate public services because they see tax as theft. I see tax as essential to nation-building.

Blaming trans people for any of this is victim blaming.

 

[Deleted member 159]