Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 159]

Cognitive bias = I don't like the results

 

[AuroraSaab]

Then criticize the system all you like. The police can quickly carry out checks, they have the means. I have no objection to a standardized system of recording.

But this again goes totally against the 'People know who they are' thing. Now it's the police who get to decide if you're a woman, not yourself? How do you know the difference between a transwoman and a transvestite?

Which is Eddie Izzard? They don't have a GRC as far as I know.

This is for the birds; just cognitive bias on testosterone. 'Lol'

Hardly cognitive bias when the difference between a transwoman and any other male in practical terms is zero. It does require an enormous leap of faith though to pretend they are women.

 

[AuroraSaab]

They aren't. Chuck in drag folk if you'd like to.

Drag artists, male ones anyway, don't pretend to be women as far as I know. They would happily be assessed as male for safeguarding purposes I would expect.

The point is, are people who they say they are or not? You can't have it both ways. There can't be a hierarchy of men who all say they are women but some aren't and some really are. Transactivism seeks to give all these men access to female spaces regardless of intent, appearance, or genuine personal belief or not.

 

[AndyRM]

Izzard is genderfluid.

Has been for pretty much forever.

 

[monkers]

But this again goes totally against the 'People know who they are' thing. Now it's the police who get to decide if you're a woman, not yourself? How do you know the difference between a transwoman and a transvestite?

Which is Eddie Izzard? They don't have a GRC as far as I know.


Hardly cognitive bias when the difference between a transwoman and any other male in practical terms is zero. It does require an enormous leap of faith though to pretend they are women.

Eddy Izzard is not an exception under the law and should treated the same as anybody else. It is the case for every person in the UK that they are the sex declared on their birth certificate, aside from any administrative errors. That is not a subjective opinion, that is the law. I can't give you a different answer, no matter how many times you deny it or challenge me to give you a different answer.

 

[AndyRM]

Drag artists, male ones anyway, don't pretend to be women as far as I know. They would happily be assessed as male for safeguarding purposes I would expect.

The point is, are people who they say they are or not? You can't have it both ways. There can't be a hierarchy of men who all say they are women but some aren't and some really are. Transactivism seeks to give all these men access to female spaces regardless of intent, appearance, or genuine personal belief or not.

Neither do transwomen.

And yes, you very much can have it both ways. I'm non-binary, I know how I present and I respect everyone's right to the spaces which they encounter.

I fully appreciate that there can be a level of fear or concern, but I totally disagree with the picture you're trying to paint.

 

[monkers]

Now it's the police who get to decide if you're a woman

No. Parliament have already decided in law. The gender recognition panel carry out the function on behalf of the government.

The police try to find out who is telling the truth or not, not deciding somebody's sex. 'Lol'.

 

[monkers]

New ruling today on testosterone levels and sport.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/07/11/caster-semenya-wins-appeal/

 

[AuroraSaab]

No. Parliament have already decided in law. The gender recognition panel carry out the function on behalf of the government. The police try to find out who is telling the truth or not, not deciding somebody's sex. 'Lol'.

But you're saying the police get to decide if a man who says he is a woman is telling the truth or not. This goes against the 'I know what my innate gender identity is' line.

So is Eddie Izzard a woman or not? Eddie says they are a woman but has no GRC.

Izzard is genderfluid. Has been for pretty much forever.

Eddie says they are a woman though. Nobody really cared up until that point, interestingly.

Eddy Izzard is not an exception under the law and should treated the same as anybody else. It is the case for every person in the UK that they are the sex declared on their birth certificate, aside from any administrative errors.

So trans people with a GRC and a new birth certificate should be treated differently to those without?

No. Parliament have already decided in law. The gender recognition panel carry out the function on behalf of the government.

The police try to find out who is telling the truth or not, not deciding somebody's sex. 'Lol'.

The gender recognition panel don't decide whether someone is charged as a male or a female. The police (in many areas) will charge them as M or F based on self ID. It's a bit much to expect the police to rule on whether someone is 'genuine' or not. Especially as you keep telling us is there's no diagnosis for being trans.

 

[monkers]

But you're saying the police get to decide if a man who says he is a woman is telling the truth or not. This goes against the 'I know what my innate gender identity is' line.

So is Eddie Izzard a woman or not? Eddie says they are a woman but has no GRC.


Eddie says they are a woman though. Nobody really cared up until that point, interestingly.

So trans people with a GRC and a new birth certificate should be treated differently to those without?


The gender recognition panel don't decide whether someone is charged as a male or a female. The police (in many areas) will charge them as M or F based on self ID. It's a bit much to expect the police to rule on whether someone is 'genuine' or not. Especially as you keep telling us is there's no diagnosis for being trans.

Muppetry. I'm going out; enjoy yourself.

 

[AuroraSaab]

And yes, you very much can have it both ways. I'm non-binary, I know how I present and I respect everyone's right to the spaces which they encounter.

You can't have it both ways that gender identity is real, is innate, and is known by the self, and that it's also fake and people are lying about it. How do you tell the difference?

I fully appreciate that there can be a level of fear or concern, but I totally disagree with the picture you're trying to paint.

The 'picture I am trying to paint' is that there is not a subset of men who are somehow different to other men, and who should be treated differently from other men. That's basically the essence of this whole thread. There are no special kinds of men. Advocating that there is is basically just telling women that their concerns are secondary to the desires of this mythical special group.

 

[monkers]

You can't have it both ways that gender identity is real, is innate, and is known by the self, and that it's also fake and people are lying about it. How do you tell the difference?

The 'picture I am trying to paint' is that there is not a subset of men who are somehow different to other men, and who should be treated differently from other men. That's basically the essence of this whole thread. There are no special kinds of men. Advocating that there is is basically just telling women that their concerns are secondary to the desires of this mythical special group.

The illusion you are trying to paint is that trans women are not worthy of use of something that you say does not exist. You're trapped in a paradox of your own making.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Normal society doesn't work this way, that's why trans has become a whole bunch of jokers, be anything at anytime.

 

[Deleted member 159]

New ruling today on testosterone levels and sport.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/07/11/caster-semenya-wins-appeal/

Biologically a male with XY chromosomes, wins in women's events.

You can tell outwardly the musculature of the arms, legs, torso and the strong male jaw line.


As far as I know this case has no bearing on the IAAF who have set out these regulations

Transgender and DSD Regulations​

The Council agreed to update the eligibility regulations for transgender and DSD athletes to compete in the female category.

For DSD athletes, the new regulations will require any relevant athletes to reduce their testosterone levels below a limit of 2.5 nmol/L for a minimum of 24 months to compete internationally in the female category in any event, not just the events that were restricted (400m to one mile) under the previous regulations.

The principle of restricted events has been removed from the regulations.

Interim provisions will be introduced for those relevant athletes who are already competing in what were the unrestricted events (distances below 400m and above one mile, plus field events). These provisions include a requirement to suppress their testosterone levels below 2.5nmol/L for a minimum of six months, before they are eligible to compete again.

The six months period is consistent with the previous regulations, which required six months of testosterone suppression (below 5nmol/L) for DSD athletes to compete in the restricted events. The interim provisions do not apply to the previously restricted events (400m to one mile) where two years of testosterone suppression will be required before the relevant athlete is eligible to compete.

These regulations will come into effect on 31 March 2023.

 

[monkers]

Biologically a male with XY chromosomes, wins in women's events.

You can tell outwardly the musculature of the arms, legs, torso and the strong male jaw line.


As far as I know this case has no bearing on the IAAF who have set out these regulations

Transgender and DSD Regulations​

The Council agreed to update the eligibility regulations for transgender and DSD athletes to compete in the female category.

For DSD athletes, the new regulations will require any relevant athletes to reduce their testosterone levels below a limit of 2.5 nmol/L for a minimum of 24 months to compete internationally in the female category in any event, not just the events that were restricted (400m to one mile) under the previous regulations.

The principle of restricted events has been removed from the regulations.

Interim provisions will be introduced for those relevant athletes who are already competing in what were the unrestricted events (distances below 400m and above one mile, plus field events). These provisions include a requirement to suppress their testosterone levels below 2.5nmol/L for a minimum of six months, before they are eligible to compete again.

The six months period is consistent with the previous regulations, which required six months of testosterone suppression (below 5nmol/L) for DSD athletes to compete in the restricted events. The interim provisions do not apply to the previously restricted events (400m to one mile) where two years of testosterone suppression will be required before the relevant athlete is eligible to compete.

These regulations will come into effect on 31 March 2023.

All the saddo right wing reactionaries crying because their long held belief was biological sex is binary along strict lines before they even heard the word 'chromosome'. Societal indoctrination based on ignorant paradigms.

The ECtHR have ruled by a unanimous decision the Caster Semenya was discriminated against. She is a human, a person discriminated against for being who is. She is not a cheat. Get over it.