Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 159]

I've had enough of this batshit craziness.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I shouldn't have to explain the numbers presented in simple bar graphs.

You deliberately picked a graph without showing that the context was as a proportion of female arrests, not overall arrests.

I said the data shows that more women are arrested than men for violence against the person.

No, it showed that 55% of female arrests were for violence against the person. Women's arrests were only 18% of the total arrests for that crime.

I have also said that men are four more times likely to face prosecution.

That doesn't prove that women are less violent. It proves that the system is biased in favour of women.

This stuff isn't hard to understand.

You know very well that more men than women are prosecuted because more men than women are arrested.

Are you seriously saying the fact that 98% of sex offenders are men is because women comit the same number of sex crimes but aren't prosecuted?

 

[classic33]

It's men that are the risk. All men, however they identify. You are basically saying that men are dangerous so transwomen can't be in vulnerable spaces with them, but men aren't dangerous around women in their vulnerable spaces. Again this is just the argument that there is a special group of men who are different to other men. There isn't.

Secondly. Wtf? You think women are there to be human shields for men that don't want to be men? Women's single sex spaces aren't refuges for men, vulnerable or not. It's not women's job to protect men from other men. In all the years when gay men were being abused and assaulted they never pushed to be allowed in women's toilets.

It's also not only about safety, it's about privacy and dignity.

You've previously stated that it isn't "all men"

I think people should use the facilities intended for their sex. If you think transmen should use male facilities, that's up to you guys.

No, they are women. You can't change your sex. We all know that. All men aren't the problem, but enough men are a problem to make single sex spaces and services a necessity.

So which is it? For the record, so that we can clearly state once and for all which you feel it is, all, some or enough men.

And it's not the first time your "view" on this has changed.

 

[classic33]

You deliberately picked a graph without showing that the context was as a proportion of female arrests, not overall arrests.

No, it showed that 55% of female arrests were for violence against the person. Women's arrests were only 18% of the total arrests for that crime.

You know very well that more men than women are prosecuted because more men than women are arrested.

Are you seriously saying the fact that 98% of sex offenders are men is because women comit the same number of sex crimes but aren't prosecuted?

The 98% is the percentage of the 44% arrested for the offence.

Link to where the women's arrest figures are shown as 18% required.

 

[Deleted member 159]

You've previously stated that it isn't "all men"

So which is it? For the record, so that we can clearly state once and for all which you feel it is, all, some or enough men.

And it's not the first time your "view" on this has changed.

I think you're mixing up in prison and out of in the wider public

 

[classic33]

I think you're mixing up in prison and out of in the wider public

Not at all. It's the differing claims being made by one person.

 

[Deleted member 159]

The 98% is the percentage of the 44% arrested for the offence.

Link to where the women's arrest figures are shown as 18% required.

https://www.google.com/search?q=violent+assault+statistics+by+gender&biw=1229&bih=562&sxsrf=AB5stBi3obYltMT3TeEvk77DVfsxDj-Fbw:1689332619900&ei=iyuxZL62NpWN9u8Pq-Sl0Ac&oq=violent+assualts+in+england+2022&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiIHZpb2xlbnQgYXNzdWFsdHMgaW4gZW5nbGFuZCAyMDIyKgIIATIFEAAYogQyBRAAGKIESIZaUABYszBwAHgBkAEAmAHfAqABsheqAQgwLjE4LjAuMbgBAcgBAPgBAcICBhAAGAcYHsICCBAAGAUYBxgewgIGEAAYBRgewgIIECEYoAEYwwTCAgoQIRigARjDBBgKwgIEECEYCuIDBBgAIEGIBgE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

What percentage of violence is committed by men?


Ninety percent of people who commit violent physical assault are men. Males perpetrate 95% of all serious domestic violence. 6. The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that 95% of reported assaults on spouses or ex-spouses are committed by men against women.

 

[classic33]

"Among the international experts is Dr. Riita Kaltiala, chief psychiatrist at Tampere University gender clinic, author of numerous peer-reviewed articles on trans medicine, and Finland's top authority on pediatric gender care".

Actual experts with integrity, not US docs who make a lucrative living from gender medicine and removing teenagers breasts and genitalia.

Described as, but doesnt say who by.
Dr. Riittakerttu Kaltiala — described as “Finland’s leading expert on pediatric gender medicine and chief psychiatrist at its largest gender clinic”

 

[monkers]

Described as, but doesnt say who by.
Dr. Riittakerttu Kaltiala — described as “Finland’s leading expert on pediatric gender medicine and chief psychiatrist at its largest gender clinic”

Finland's leading expert who is now very annoyed that he is no longer needed as much as a leading expert since Finland went down the path of preferring what the WHO say and have adopted self-ID.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Finland's leading expert who is now very annoyed that he is no longer needed as much as a leading expert since Finland went down the path of preferring what the WHO say and have adopted self-ID.

That was a short trip

 

[monkers]

You deliberately picked a graph without showing that the context was as a proportion of female arrests, not overall arrests.

It's Home Office data. It shows the percentage of arrests by sex. Of females arrested for various offences, 55% of them were for violent offences against the person. Men have a bigger range of criminality, with 44% of those being for violence against the person.

The number of arrests of women for violence against the person in 2021 is 53k in round numbers.

What I'm tired of hearing is that men are violent without wanting to acknowledge that women are violent too.

Your argument is dishonest. You present that men are violent, that trans women are men are therefore violent. Therefore Caster Semenya should only use male toilets. This is monstrous.

Women are more often the reported victims of violence. Men less so.

There is a cultural bias in the UK. Women are long seen as the weaker sex that needs protecting. Men are brought up by their parents to never hit a woman, but to defend people against other men. The instinct for violence is societally introduced and reinforced - not saying there are no other factors.

On the other hand, women can assault men, and the culture bias / societal expectation is that men should put up with both the physical pain of assault and the humiliation.

In terms of partner on partner domestic abuse, 19% of women do not report violence against them, the figure for men is 49%.

Women are victims of domestic violence from their partners twice as often as men. The ration is two to one.

Therefore even at the reporting stage there is cultural bias. This is not a picture of women not being violent.

From this stage cultural bias is seen in each stage of the process.

Men that are reported are much more likely to be arrested, much more likely to be cautioned or charged, much more likely to be jailed, and much more likely to receive a longer sentence.

Domestic violence is said to be 85% committed by men, but this relies on reporting rates. This figure of 85% will include male violence against other males in the household.

Trans women are more four times more likely that cis women to be the victim in violent crime. It rather suggest that they are nearly as strong, aggressive, or a threat as you like to portray.


When as I have said, if a woman squirts tomato sauce in the hair of a man because she doesn't like something he says, he doesn't even report it.

When on the other side of the world, a woman whose message you support has tomato sauce squirted in her hair, the world goes nuts.

This disproportionality is astonishing, and it points to something doesn't it. Extreme bias.


The point I've been making all along is this habit of your's of spouting data is always without reference to context.

Anyone can pull a figure out of a hat, but it needs analysis of the data to understand what the numbers are, and what they represent.

When I treat data as you do in order to make a point of the misapplication, you cry foul. You never see the point. Instead all that follows is pages of over-seized memes collected together without any fact checking or analysis.

Cultural bias is everywhere, and typically it is loaded against men. There are movements now men trying to push back against this mischaracterisation, then they are told they are part of the problem, not caring about women and girls.

People everywhere care about women and girls, but not all of us are willing to forget about the rights of boys and men.


Why some men are guilty of operating against the interests of women is their networking which has been successful in suppressing opportunities for women.

I'll happily discuss the latter, but I'm not joining in with this brainless demonisation of men being violent rapists, and trans women are worse.

You've misbehaved with the data, it's altogether too obvious.

EDIT: a link to the data that I post accompanied the data - not something you are so in the habit of doing.

 

[monkers]

That was a short trip

Why don't go and find something useful to do and leave discussion to the grown ups?

 

[AuroraSaab]

You've previously stated that it isn't "all men". So which is it? For the record, so that we can clearly state once and for all which you feel it is, all, some or enough men. And it's not the first time your "view" on this has changed.

My view hasn't changed. It's not all men, but it's enough men to be a problem.

Described as, but doesnt say who by.
Dr. Riittakerttu Kaltiala — described as “Finland’s leading expert on pediatric gender medicine and chief psychiatrist at its largest gender clinic”

As described by the Wall Street Journal. I would be surprised if someone would sign a letter as a professor of psychiatry if they weren't.

Finland's leading expert who is now very annoyed that he is no longer needed as much as a leading expert since Finland went down the path of preferring what the WHO say and have adopted self-ID.

She's still a professor of adolescent psychiatry etc. by the looks of it. And Finland has stepped back on puberty blockers btw.

No idea why you have misgendered her.

It's Home Office data. It shows the percentage of arrests by sex. Of females arrested for various offences, 55% of them were for violent offences against the person.

You presented it as women being responsible for 55% of violence arrests, when it's actually 18%. It was a deliberate misdirection.

Your argument is dishonest. You present that men are violent, that trans women are men are therefore violent. Therefore Caster Semenya should only use male toilets. This is monstrous.

The argument is that all men are men. There are no special categories of men.

If you want to argue for everything being unisex on the basis of women also being violent, then do so. But that isn't what you are doing. You are arguing that a subset of men be treated differently to all other men because of how they feel.

 

[monkers]

No idea why you have misgendered her.

Ah only trans people may be misgendered, I didn't get the memo.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Even I can find the data saying it's been around 15-20% of women are violent compared to men violence