Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 159]

Your majority doesn't really exist. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society...-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

Most folk weren't really concerned with trans back in 2018, there has been a hardening of opinion to not allow trans in women's sports and women's spaces

This awakening to this ideology is only going to gain more prominence against the trans radicalism movement in the wider public.

That's why IAAF, UCI, FINA have banned trans from women's categories. They can compete in the open/men's class.-pretty sure you wont see any of them

Sport has only heightened the awareness of the public and safeguarding women's spaces will be the next battleground followed by claiming back the word woman for women

 

[classic33]

They already have all the rights under their biological sex. What trans are asking for, it to infringe upon women's rights, by invading their spaces, sports and appropriating the noun Woman.

Modern scientists, you mean the brainwashed. Adrian Harrop, clear example of this.

You don't have to agree with me or the majority of this country, that's what opinion and free speech is all about.

How are trans men doing this?

 

[Deleted member 159]

How are trans men doing this?

They're not, they are women, less aggressive, not demanding. General realisation, cant compete in men's sports, dare not overtly enter men's spaces.

 

[monkers]

You've (trans supporters) decided that Debbie Hayton is a man, not a true women, because they don't have a gender certificate.

So what about the vast majority of trans, who don't have a certificate are they not women too in the eyes of activists?

Round and round you go. This week you must have certificate to be woman, last week you just had to say I'm a woman

Debbie Hayton and the law agree with each other that Debbie Hayton is a man. I've decided nothing, I'm just telling you what they both say and pointing out to you that they agree with each other. So what's the problem here?

The vast majority of people who are caught by the umbrella term 'transgender' are not trans women. Trans people are those who are intending to undergo, are undergoing, or have undergone transition. Those who have completed the statutory two year period and obtained a GRC have the protected characteristic of sex, just like anybody else who has a birth certificate. It's a perfectly simple distinction, and the one that parliament intended - so no change required.

People are entitled to present and express how they like - this is the same law that enable you to have your own freedom of expression. The fact that you are here expressing your bigotry and being uninhibited proves that trans women have taken no such right from anybody.

More than that Andy, if you make a trip to the nearest solicitors office, they can fix you up with a deed poll where you can change your title and your name to what ever you want. You could be Miss Martha Fukkwit by Friday, and all for about £50 - and that becomes your legal identity. You can put that on your passport, driving licence, bank account wherever. This is a freedom available to all people.

You might think such people are fruitcakes, but the law doesn't anything of you except not to cause them alarm, distress, or harass them. Think you can manage that?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Your majority doesn't really exist. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society...-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

???? The surveys results in that link show that most people aren't in favour of transwomen in women's sports or women's changing rooms etc.

As we see in other surveys, the public are broadly in favour of trans rights when they think that means being free to live your life without abuse and to not face discrimination in employment or housing and so on. When people realise 'trans rights' means access to women's spaces and sports the support declines.

 

[Deleted member 159]

The vast majority of people who are caught by the umbrella term 'transgender' are not trans women

Hey if someone wants to cut off their dick and balls, have fake breast installed, take female hormones for the rest of their life, are welcome to call themselves whatever they like. Hell I even concede you can call yourself a women, if you're prepared to go through all that- personal opinion- why would anyone wreck their body for the rest of their life, so few of these dysphoria folk prepared for such radical interventions

Non of this surgery should be done to anyone under 21, I would even say 25, so that ample time is given for the subject to come to a reasoned, psychiatric assessed decision.

What I object to the vast majority of fake transgender, who claim to be women, entering women's spaces, entering sport using their superior male genetics and saying they're real women. This is a social media craze, they exude male aggression, in a what I can only assume is to dominate females.

Most claiming this, have other issues, autism, comorbidity, physical/mental problems. These should be treated with psychiatric care. Social media makes folk think they can be whatever they like, in a flip of a switch.

I'm perfectly happy being a traditional man, thankyou.

 

[monkers]

What I object to the vast majority of fake transgender, who claim to be women, entering women's spaces, entering sport using their superior male genetics and saying they're real women. This is a social media craze, they exude male aggression, in a what I can only assume is to dominate females.

Then trans women should not be your target. They are not fakes. Debbie Hayton is not a trans woman. She is allowed to call herself a trans woman even if she is not one, though she is transgender, but the law allows people to call themselves what they like - freedom to express yourself, and not just in words.

Debbie Hayton is using the same right to express herself as you are posting here. If you are unhappy about that, then your real beef is that the right to freedom of expression is that you don't like people having the same right as you expressing something you are unhappy about. So maybe you're on the wrong campaign?

 

[Deleted member 159]

On a personal note, my daughter's school is going co education, There are, I think 2 kids claiming to be trans. There was discussion of making the toilets mixed. There was a huge uproar from the parents and the idea was quickly ditched by the school. Boys and girls changing rooms remain as is. Trans have to change with their sex or change in a separate room.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Then trans women should not be your target. They are not fakes. Debbie Hayton is not a trans woman. She is allowed to call herself a trans woman even if she is not one, though she is transgender, but the law allows people to call themselves what they like - freedom to express yourself, and not just in words.

Disagree with that. I've got to go and do some man's building work for a while so will leave you to continue.

Don't worry. I'll be back

 

[classic33]

They're not, they are women, less aggressive, not demanding. General realisation, cant compete in men's sports, dare not overtly enter men's spaces.

The one I know isn't any of those. He is now a solicitor. When I worked with her, she was in the packing department of the same place I worked. Not the sort of person to wind up the wrong way.

He's not bothered, from the short time we spent talking, about going into "men's spaces" and from general appearance you'd be hard pressed to say he's been anything but a man. If it weren't for bits of shared workplace history*, I'd not have been inclined to believe him.

*Stuff that only those who were there could have known about. Much the same as any workplace.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The vast majority of people who are caught by the umbrella term 'transgender' are not trans women. Trans people are those who are intending to undergo, are undergoing, or have undergone transition.

There's no notification required that you are undergoing 'transition', whatever that even means, so how can you say some men who claim to be women are transgender and some aren't?

'You are who you say you are' means they all are if they say they are. This idea that only people with GRC's are genuinely transgender is very much the antithesis of what transactivists demand and it's the opposite of what you have said in this thread.

You've said there's no workable definition of 'woman' so 'So let's just let us women say, 'I am a woman'. Job done.' No mention of GRC's and your trans hierarchy of who is genuine or not.

 

[winjim]

I'll give it a go, if I can get past the pinkness for long enough...

I suggested it to the 8yo this morning and she was absolutely horrified. Snarled at me and said she hates Barbie. She does like the dolls but she's given them all haircuts and tattoos, she's not into the pink aesthetic any more.

Maybe I'll take her to watch Oppenheimer instead...

 

[monkers]

There's no notification required that you are undergoing 'transition', whatever that even means, so how can you say some men who claim to be women are transgender and some aren't?

'You are who you say you are' means they all are if they say they are. This idea that only people with GRC's are genuinely transgender is very much the antithesis of what transactivists demand and it's the opposite of what you have said in this thread.

You've said there's no workable definition of 'woman' so 'So let's just let us women say, 'I am a woman'. Job done.' No mention of GRC's and your trans hierarchy of who is genuine or not.

You've again managed to mangle my words in some effort to make them mean something else.

We are who we say we are. We all self-identify in the same way. We have the freedom to control it - there's no law to restrict it- which makes it not so much as 'right' as a freedom. As I just explained to Andy, visit the nearest solicitor this afternoon and they'll happily and legally prepare a document for you within a few days to make your your formal and legal identity Mr Aurora Saab. You then have the right to put that on every document except your birth certificate. If Self-ID of gender was a thing in the UK, you could put that on your birth certificate and eventual death certificate- however these documents are not the primary documents of identification - those are things like passport and driving licence form which you can use a deed poll to change. No questions asked.

A GRC actually does very little in this regard to identity - it means the person has that identity also on the birth and death certificate.


View: https://youtu.be/4RaSCFH7L-E

 

[monkers]

This idea that only people with GRC's are genuinely transgender is very much the antithesis of what transactivists demand and it's the opposite of what you have said in this thread.

Think logically - that all trans women are transgender does not mean that all transgender people are trans women. Also that trans women are women, does not mean that all cis women are transgender or that trans women are cis women. These are the kinds of knots you are either tying yourself in, or otherwise trying to tie other people in. To people with clearer heads, your version is just wrong-headed nonsense.

Dogs are mammals, cats are mammals, therefore dogs are cats, and cats are dogs - that's literally what you are doing in your interpretation of the EqA.

If the TERFs and GCs want 'clarification' of what parliament intended in the GCA, then I'll make it easy for them, no consultancey fees ...

... for the purposes of this act, the distinction of a person's 'sex' shall be decided according to the sex stated on a person's birth certificate.

 

[winjim]

I suggested it to the 8yo this morning and she was absolutely horrified. Snarled at me and said she hates Barbie. She does like the dolls but she's given them all haircuts and tattoos, she's not into the pink aesthetic any more.

Maybe I'll take her to watch Oppenheimer instead...

Speaking of Barbie, it is interesting how we seem to have moved from her being seen as problematic, sexist and promoting unattainable body image, to being a 'girlboss' role model. I don't know if that's just down to the marketing around the movie or whether it's indicative of a wider change in attitude. Can women now be stereotypically pink and girly yet taken seriously at work in a way they couldn't before? Are Barbie dolls good for girls? We resisted buying them and instead got Lottie dolls which have more sensible body proportions, less pink and really good outfits (astronaut, footballer, biologist) but our daughter went through a really pink phase where she desperately wanted a real Barbie and we weren't going to deny her, she's her own person after all and we're there to guide her, not mould her. Now she's out of her pink period but who knows how she'll develop later on?