Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

Any links to the UK court cases for those incidents? I'm not interested in unverifiable anecdotes.

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Try googling. There is loads of stuff:

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...ndroid-browser&q=arrested+trans+hate+crime+uk

In there is the Met data on transphobic hate crime up until Feb 22. Here is the table of reported crimes by year:

A massive increase from about 2015, but really peaking these past few years.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Any links to those specific incidents? The assertion was that 'Terfs', ie feminist women, are orchestrating setting people on fire. Your link is to male violence and hate crime stats - which can include anything from assault to being misgendered depending on how the force records it.

Male aggression and attitudes, as shown in your link, is one reason why women and girls need single sex spaces and services.

 

[multitool]

Any links to those specific incidents? The assertion was that 'Terfs', ie feminist women, are orchestrating setting people on fire. Your link is to male violence and hate crime stats - which can include anything from assault to being misgendered depending on how the force records it.

Male aggression and attitudes, as shown in your link, is one reason why women and girls need single sex spaces and services.

Yawn.

Trying to infer that violence against Trans women necessarily means violence by trans women is pretty messed up. Even by your, admittedly low, standards.

 

[monkers]

Any links to the UK court cases for those incidents? I'm not interested in unverifiable anecdotes.

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Now that you have this new-found ability to examine data, I'll ask you to consider some numbers.

In the UK there are some shocking statistics.

40% of adult rape victims do not report rape.
72% of child rape victims do not report rape.

If anyone as much as suggested that these rapes did not occur, I'd be having very strong words with them.

88% of trans people do not report offences.

That's the reporting rate of victims.

Of the crimes reported to police, only a small number are investigated.

Of those crimes investigated, only a small number lead to arrests.

Some arrest lead to no further action.

Some of those arrested get off with a caution.

Of the remainder, the CPS decides which ones they can prosecute with a reasonable chance of a successful prosecution. With the pressure on resources, the bar rises.

Of the remainder that make it to court, journalists tend to pick the stories that will sell papers, and/or apply their own biases.

Please let us not pretend that only newspaper reports of court cases are the only evidence.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's a shame you find advocating violence against women so boring. You had plenty to say when Nazi men turned up at a women's meeting. You have much less to say when women are actually assaulted or a transwoman is met with cheers for suggesting violence.

It's all  male violence. That's the point. You demand that women be held responsible for it but conversely demand they also accept that some men aren't men.

Please let us not pretend that only newspaper reports of court cases are the only evidence.

But neither does evidence consist of hate crime stats where what was reported isn't shown. It could be anything from being hospitalised by an assault to being called 'Sir' in Burger King.

 

[monkers]

It's a shame you find advocating violence against women so boring.

I don't. I wasn't there, but I have spoken to people who were and heard the speeches in full. They don't consider that for a moment that it was meant as any more than a bit of tongue-in-cheek comment. There were TERFs present at Pride apparently, and as far as anyone is aware, there was no punching on either side.

Bellos, on the other hand, was not being light-hearted, the speech in the clip I linked shows. Because there were no reports of TERFs going out straight afterwards and not getting 'farked up' as Bellos had said meant that provided the opportunity for the defence of no incitement of violence as none happened.

The Met looked at the footage and decided that there was no criminality. Braverman intervened and had Baker returned to jail.

Today Braverman made a statement in the House of Commons about terrorism. In her remarks about terrorism, she made reference to Pride as being a terrorist event. It caught my hearing while I busy in the kitchen with something else. I'll be reading Hansard later, to read the actual wording.

 

[monkers]

It's all  male violence. That's the point. You demand that women be held responsible for it but conversely demand they also accept that some men aren't men.

Not all violence is male violence. I know you are not happy when seeing the data, but that doesn't make it go away. Women are violent too, there is less frequency, and probably less severity, but women are violent too. There can be no excuses from violence because one is female, yet society forgives women more readily than men for similar offences. The studies are out there.

By the way, I have demanded nothing, other than maybe you start telling the truth.

 

[monkers]

You had plenty to say when Nazi men turned up at a women's meeting.

Did I? And what did I say? I remember you mischaracterising my words time after time, and my irritation at you being such a liar. At one point my irritation with this was to say, 'OK you are a Nazi, happy now that somebody has said it'.

The record stands. Explore it, before you say this wild stuff that you invent.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I wasn't talking to you in that part of the post.

The idea that a criminal who kidnapped a man, violently assaulted him, and then made him perform oral sex on him, and later went on to try to strangle a cell mate to death, was just being light-hearted and tongue in cheek whilst saying 'Punch a terf!!' is rather hard to believe.

Not all violence is male violence.

The vast majority of violence is male violence, regardless of who the victim is. That remains the case in every country that keeps records.

I doubt Barker will be charged with anything. Being charged and being returned to jail for breaching licence conditions are 2 different things though.

I'm sure there'll be a vigil or demo you can attend at some point in order to show your love and support. Don't forget the black outfit and the mask.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Did I? And what did I say? I remember you mischaracterising my words time after time, and my irritation at you being such a liar. At one point my irritation with this was to say, 'OK you are a Nazi, happy now that somebody has said it'.

The record stands. Explore it, before you say this wild stuff that you invent.

I wasn't talking to you in that post. Since you bring it up though, you have spent much of this thread banging on about Nazis, fascism, and today genocide, hyperbolically appropriating everything from the Holocaust to black rights.

Wanting adult men to have the right to get changed with women and girls is neither the Kindertransport nor the Long Walk to Freedom. You insult and demean those who suffered under such oppression by your ridiculous conflation of fascism with anything that stops a certain subset of men getting what they want.

 

[monkers]

I wasn't talking to you in that post. Since you bring it up though, you have spent much of this thread banging on about Nazis, fascism, and today genocide, hyperbolically appropriating everything from the Holocaust to black rights.

Wanting adult men to have the right to get changed with women and girls is neither the Kindertransport nor the Long Walk to Freedom. You insult and demean those who suffered under such oppression by your ridiculous conflation of fascism with anything that stops a certain subset of men getting what they want.

Most of what you have to say relies on your own distortions and mischaracterisations of people on the thread. I haven't been keeping count, but a number of people have made the same point.

When you have Posie Parker alleging that the mothers of trans children are groomers (implying paedophilia) and portraying trans people as sexual predators, you can not be too surprised when Neo Nazis turn up with salutes and banners. They believe they are sharing the same message.

 

[monkers]

I'm sure there'll be a vigil or demo you can attend at some point in order to show your love and support.

Was that necessary?

 

[AuroraSaab]

You've written at length about why we should all feel sorry for the kidnapping, sexual abusing, attempted murderer. I feel it would be rather hypocritical of you to demand empathy from the rest of us and not turn out yourself in person. Looks like you missed your chance though. It was last Friday. Still, thoughts and prayers ...

Here's the National Crime Agency today saying that one in fifty men present some degree of sexual risk to children.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...pidemic-of-child-sexual-abuse-warns-uk-agency

They don't seem to be differentiating between the men who say they are men and the ones who say they aren't. Or between men with different modes of dress and presentation.

They obviously haven't seen your stats. You might want to get on to them with your safeguarding analysis and put them straight.

 

[monkers]

You've written at length about why we should all feel sorry for the kidnapping, sexual abusing, attempted murderer. I feel it would be rather hypocritical of you to demand empathy from the rest of us and not turn out yourself in person. Looks like you missed your chance though. It was last Friday. Still, thoughts and prayers ...

View attachment 4260

Here's the National Crime Agency today saying that one in fifty men present some degree of sexual risk to children.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...pidemic-of-child-sexual-abuse-warns-uk-agency

They don't seem to be differentiating between the men who say they are men and the ones who say they aren't. Or between men with different modes of dress and presentation.

They obviously haven't seen your stats. You might want to get on to them with your safeguarding analysis and put them straight.

You really are a muppet.

I haven't defended Baker. I haven't agreed with anything that she's done.

Neither have I attempted a safeguarding analysis. Why can you not stop yourself from just making stuff up.

Baker is a survivor of torture and abuse. She was abused as a child, taken into care, abused some more. She finally ended the abuse by beating up her abuser. She was tried for beating and sent to jail. She was then tried again for the same offence with an upgraded charge.

The system failed her. Now the Met are failing women, there is heavy criticism, and rightly so. Are you telling women not to fight back against their abusers? No.

If this was a case of woman ending her abuse by beating her assailant, you'd see this rather differently. Sarah Baker is not innocent, but she is not the absolute monster that many are saying.

This is a case where personal bias (hatred) of others overwhelms any other instinct. It's blatant transphobia.

She has in fact got her way. She didn't ask for release, and asked to be readmitted, and was refused. Thirty years is a heck of a long time to spend removed from society. The readjustment must be very difficult.

Whatever you have say, Baker is still like any of us, a human being, but in her case a very damaged one.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Was that necessary?

Absolutely, your avid support of a murderer say a thousand words about your character.