Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Therefore the people doing the battering and sexual assaulting of women in their homes is men, not trans women.

400 pages in and you have yet to demonstrate that there is any discernible difference between transwomen and other men. They are all men.

UK women are unlikely to be assaulted by an 80 plus Orthodox Jewish man, at home or otherwise. We don't consider this a rational argument for giving 80 year old Jewish men access to all women's single sex spaces and services.

The relevant factor is their sex. Not age, not belief, not how they see themselves. Their sex.

 

[Bromptonaut]

400 pages in and you have yet to demonstrate that there is any discernible difference between transwomen and other men. They are all men.

Jeez, how difficult can it be.

The fundamental difference between your view and that of others here, me included, is that we do see a discernible difference.

They're not men.

I accept your right to believe differently but you cannot browbeat the rest of us into accepting your position.

 

[Pale Rider]

Nurse!

He's out of bed again......

A bit near the mark here, Bromp.

Careful, your woke credentials are slipping.

 

[Deleted member 159]

They're not men.

They really are men.

You cannot change sex.

 

[Bromptonaut]

They really are men.

You cannot change sex.

As I said to @AuroraSaab you cannot browbeat us into accepting your opinion

However many times you state it, it remains opinion..

 

[Pale Rider]

As I said to @AuroraSaab you cannot browbeat us into accepting your opinion

However many times you state it, it remains opinion..

Can I take it your opinion is a bloke in a skirt, or even not in a skirt, is a woman just because he says he is?

Not an opinion I share, and I suspect it will be a bloody hard task to convince the general public as well.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Can I take it your opinion is a bloke in a skirt, or even not in a skirt, is a woman just because he says he is?

No.

Don't think I said that did I?

 

[Deleted member 159]

As I said to @AuroraSaab you cannot browbeat us into accepting your opinion

However many times you state it, it remains opinion..

Just stating fact

 

[Bromptonaut]

Just stating fact

Whatever.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Jeez, how difficult can it be.

The fundamental difference between your view and that of others here, me included, is that we do see a discernible difference. They're not men.

I accept your right to believe differently but you cannot browbeat the rest of us into accepting your position.

But this is simply your choice to perceive them differently. Surely you can see that? Reality has not changed; you are simply choosing to perceive it differently. And your demand that everybody else should also perceive them differently comes at no cost to you whatsoever, but affects others who do not share your chosen perception.

Why should your choice of how you perceive certain men affect those who don't believe the same as you do?

 

[Pale Rider]

No.

Don't think I said that did I?

It was a genuine question, so if you say you didn't say it, you didn't.

I've lost track of your take, but you appear to be supporting what we could call the 'pro trans' side.

I can tell you are getting a bit weary with all this, but you might care to outline, shortly, your position, particularly in relation to the man who simply says he's a woman.

Or as you put it, if Robert and Simon say they are now Roberta and Simone.

Which, I might add, would be a very odd couple indeed.

 

[Bromptonaut]

But this is simply your choice to perceive them differently. Surely you can see that? Reality has not changed; you are simply choosing to perceive it differently. And your demand that everybody else should also perceive them differently comes at no cost to you whatsoever, but affects others who do not share your chosen perception.

Why should your choice of how you perceive certain men affect those who don't believe the same as you do?

As I said we're seeing this from different premises.

Unless either of us has some new perspective to shine light then we're just propelling the hamster wheel around.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Whatever.

No, it's not.

It is fact

 

[Bromptonaut]

No, it's not.

It is fact

Nothing to add.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I can tell you are getting a bit weary with all this, but you might care to outline, shortly, your position, particularly in relation to the man who simply says he's a woman.

Nobody wants to say. They just want to evade the details by saying it's nuanced and complicated. Are transwomen always to be treated as women, or only sometimes? When? And if not, why not? I can't answer because it's nuanced and complicated.