Gender again. Sorry!

[newfhouse]

Only aspect of Zealotry (your words) is not having any child go through any surgery or puberty blockers.

Yes, that’s zealotry, ideology if you prefer.

On a scale between the extremes of ‘always’ and ‘never’ most thinking folk will probably tend towards ‘I will weigh up the pros and cons of individual cases and form a judgement trying to balance a range of expert advice with my own feelings.’

 

[multitool]

what from business owners, accountants, lawyers to painter/decorators. varied to say the least

Yeah.

I'm sure this culture war bullshît just 'crops up' in conversation, doesn't it.

 

[multitool]

It says as much about it as the credibility of someone who thinks that 49% vs 50% matters and constantly use it to nit pick and put down a woman because they think they know best whilst failing to listen to , or learn from the arguments whilst they spend their time ignoring anything that they can't answer or rebut.

You aren't a stupid person, so why have you allowed yourself to write such a stupid post?

"A woman" is the only woman putting forward these so-called 'arguments'. I rebut them, as do all but 2 other posters, maybe 3 if you include Pallid Rinder.

On a side note, maybe a moment's contemplation is due on the company you keep.

If you've CRXAndy and Pallid on your side, you are probably on the wrong side.

 

[CXRAndy]

You aren't a stupid person, so why have you allowed yourself to write such a stupid post?

"A woman" is the only woman putting forward these so-called 'arguments'. I rebut them, as do all but 2 other posters, maybe 3 if you include Pallid Rinder.

On a side note, maybe a moment's contemplation is due on the company you keep.

If you've CRXAndy and Pallid on your side, you are probably on the wrong side.

To deny biological fact as common sense , puts you in the flat earth camp.

 

[multitool]

To deny biological fact as common sense , puts you in the flat earth camp.

What does to 'deny biology as common sense" even mean?

I ask, because I'm never sure you know what you are saying.

 

[CXRAndy]

Yes, that’s zealotry, ideology if you prefer.

To advocate allowing surgical operations and or sterilizing drugs to minors is condoning abuse of children. Do you not agree?

 

[CXRAndy]

I ask, because I'm never sure you know what you are saying

That's because you're constantly nit picking.

to repeat for you.

There are only two sexes, you cant change sex no matter what you do to your body. Gender is directly relatable to sex.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It says as much about it as the credibility of someone who thinks that 49% vs 50% matters and constantly use it to nit pick and put down a woman because they think they know best whilst failing to listen to , or learn from the arguments whilst they spend their time ignoring anything that they can't answer or rebut.

The 51% bog survey is as good as it gets, I'm afraid. That and a self selecting survey on hormones where the recipients were recruited from Tik Tok. Can't believe all these researchers, scientists, government experts, sports scientists and so on aren't taking this 'evidence' more seriously. All this amazing evidence is out there and yet they are increasingly stopping puberty blockers for kids and keeping men out of the female sports category. Obviously some posters on here know better than these experts.

 

[icowden]

You aren't a stupid person, so why have you allowed yourself to write such a stupid post?

It's not. For someone who is arguing against binaries, you tend to keep going back to binaries. Yes @Aurorsaab made a sweeping statement that most women agree with her. Yes, you found a survey that showed it was only 49% and 50% disagreed. That's irrelevant surely.

If 50,000 people think one thing and 49,000 people think the opposite that doesn't tell us that the 50% are right. It tells us that on this issue people are completely divided and it would be better to do more research, more work, more investigation. See Brexit for further info.

"A woman" is the only woman putting forward these so-called 'arguments'. I rebut them, as do all but 2 other posters, maybe 3 if you include Pallid Rinder.

Yes, but it's the way that you rebut them. You could listen to what @AuroraSaab says and come up with cogent, rational responses. You could acknowledge that some of her concerns are held by other people. You could and should be questioning both sides of the argument. I don't agree with everything that @AuroraSaab posts, but I think a good part of it is reasonably sane.

I think it's right to question the use of irreversible, life changing surgery and medication on very young people. I think it should be dealt with *very very* carefully, require significant intervention from Doctors before it even gets to a surgical team.

On a side note, maybe a moment's contemplation is due on the company you keep.
If you've CRXAndy and Pallid on your side, you are probably on the wrong side.

Usually I'd agree with you, but I cannot support unneeded surgery on young people nor the idea that gender identity is a magical thing that happens at birth. I think there is enough evidence otherwise that we should be conducting more research and investigating this area very carefully. We cannot equate the historic evidence of people choosing to live in a certain way with the modern ability to use surgical techniques and medicine to try to fashion a new body.

I tend to think that you are you, and if you aren't happy being you, then there is a deep seated psychological problem that needs to be dealt with.

 

[winjim]

Always good to be lectured about healthy sexualities by Jordan Peterson fans.


View: https://twitter.com/PresidentToguro/status/1373429075147100168?t=JhPrnITnlE5nbAu1z9lnOg&s=19

If anyone's interested, Jordan Peterson is currently having a very normal one over on twitter telling Mehdi Hasan that he's not Asian.

 

[newfhouse]

To advocate allowing surgical operations and or sterilizing drugs to minors is condoning abuse of children. Do you not agree?

No, I wouldn't be as black and white as that.

Gender is directly relatable to sex.

Connected but not the same. Do you deny that gender, whether we are born with a starting point, or it's a social construct or even just a feeling, can be fluid?

 

[CXRAndy]

No, I wouldn't be as black and white as that

For cutting parts off a child's body as a solution for a psychological issue is black and white.

If said child grows up and still feels the same as an adult. So be it they can chop away.

But most grow out of any of these ideas, accept their sex is their gender.

This is where we differ, I believe sex and gender are the same.

 

[newfhouse]

But most grow out of any of these ideas,

They used to say that about gay people. That was wrong too.

This is where we differ, I believe sex and gender are the same.

We also differ in that I think you should butt out of other people’s decisions. Why do you care what goes on in anyone’s head or pants?

 

[icowden]

We also differ in that I think you should butt out of other people’s decisions. Why do you care what goes on in anyone’s head or pants?

He doesn't. He cares about whether medical interventions are appropriate with young people, and how the interpretation of what is going on in some people's heads affects the hard won rights of other groups of marginalised people.

That's something we should all care about.

I think also the suppression of free speech on the basis that if every time someone says something that a trans activist doesn't like, someone trans dies is also a concern.

 

[AuroraSaab]

They used to say that about gay people. That was wrong too.

No drugs and surgery are required for gay people to be their authentic selves. No gay rights required impinging on anybody else's rights or boundaries.