Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 159]

Who would do the asking and delaying? How would they decide pass or fail?

A quick non invasive test like using thermal imaging. That most likely would reveal presence of a dick

 

[Ian H]

Who would do the asking and delaying? How would they decide pass or fail?

I refer you to your earlier cartoon.

 

[icowden]

I have never seen a woman challenged in toilets or changing rooms for not looking feminine enough. Even if they were challenged it would take very little to establish that they were female. There has always been an understanding that if you were in women's spaces you were female; no longer guaranteed to be the case.

But there has been a reported increase in incidents involving women who look a bit masculine.

It relies on the social contract, just like not going through red lights, not using disabled toilets, and many other things does. It doesn't usually require a dna check to see that someone is male but the relentless pushing for access to female spaces has made it increasingly difficult for women to speak out when they are uncomfortable with males in their spaces.

I agree, but in terms of enforceability it's a dead end. I was in the South Bank yesterday. There are loads of loos, all of which are empty for a lot of the day. It doesn't really matter who uses which loo. You can't police them so it's a dead end alley.

I agree with you that some spaces need protecting. I also agree with those who have pointed out that for many spaces there is protection anyway under the law, however I do have concerns about legal gender change and what that potentially means for the protection of women, particularly if legal gender change is made easier, as activists want.

 

[icowden]

A quick non invasive test like using thermal imaging. That most likely would reveal presence of a dick

So you are proposing that every public venue up and down the country install expensive imaging equipment in front of every toilet area, as well as two people (one to man the device, another to deal with miscreants). I'm not sure that that would be financially viable and many venues would be forced to close. It would also be massively disproportionate to the imagined problem.

It would be better to deal with the issue at source. Improve care for young people who feel that they have gender dysphoria, minimise invasive interventions and tackle the premise that trying to surgically alter your body is somehow going to make you happy.

 

[Deleted member 159]

So you are proposing that every public venue up and down the country install expensive imaging equipment in front of every toilet area, as well as two people (one to man the device, another to deal with miscreants). I'm not sure that that would be financially viable and many venues would be forced to close. It would also be massively disproportionate to the imagined problem.

It would be better to deal with the issue at source. Improve care for young people who feel that they have gender dysphoria, minimise invasive interventions and tackle the premise that trying to surgically alter your body is somehow going to make you happy.

No Im indulging the fascination of solutions. I agree make it publicly known that women's loos are out of bounds to men.

Improve psychiatric care for young people who feel that they have gender dysphoria, minimise eradicate invasive interventions and tackle the premise that trying to surgically alter your body is not somehow going to make you happy.

That's what I would suggest

 

[icowden]

I agree make it publicly known that women's loos are out of bounds to men.

It already is (and vice versa). However a transwoman (a genuine one) is someone who by definition believes that they are a woman. Thus they would use the women's loo. The loo system operates on custom and belief. The trans ideology also operates on belief (at the present time).

 

[Deleted member 159]

However a transwoman (a genuine one) is someone who by definition believes that they are a woman

But they're not, so should be barred from women's facilities. I've got no objections to having a 3rd loo for unisex, but women's loos are solely for biological females

 

[multitool]

Both crime surveys and prosecutions show that women and girls are more likely to be the victim of sexual offences than males. Females are the victims in 80% plus of UK prosecutions.

Most males are attracted to women not men so why would they be just as likely to attack a male? Most obviously though, no offender assaults someone of similar physical size or who they cannot intimidate into submission. That is obviously easier with women than with men. Most sexual assaults on males include drugs or alcohol.


If self ID were passed on what basis would anyone like Sophie Louise Carter be refused entry to say the swimming baths changing rooms? Even if they hadn't legally got a cert it would become difficult for providers to turn them away.

Who are you to say this person is acting on a whim anyway? In what way is Sophie Louise Carter not a woman, but Eddie Izzard is? Because one has made a bit more effort?

Btw, the Scots dismissed the ammendment that would have stopped sex offenders getting a certificate, so there would be no bar on the above offender getting their sex and name legally changed. And it would be illegal for anyone to tell anybody what their previous name was.

Ah, as I suspected.

You haven't understood* what self ID is, and you are assuming that Sophie Carter is attracted to girls, rather than actually having any knowledge, because you are trying to sidestep my point that you want Carter to have unfettered access to little boys**
Anyway, still waiting for the deluge of abuse cases in the 40+ countries with Self ID that you and your moron sidekick are pretending is actually happening



* clearly you do understand what self ID is, but you are wilfuly pretending that it relies soley on self-perception rather than having any basis in law

**the wiser readers will realise that I am using Aurora's very own argument here to highlight the mendaciousness and sophistry of it.

 

[Unkraut]

But you might as well say that the bar area is only for people aged 25 and over, but not carry out ID checks.

All you need to do is self ID as being over 25 and the problem is solved, as you are what you self ID as. All the better if you can legally change your birth certificate to reflect the reality of how old you now identify as.

 

[icowden]

But they're not, so should be barred from women's facilities. I've got no objections to having a 3rd loo for unisex, but women's loos are solely for biological females

So how do you intend to police this?

 

[multitool]

I have never seen a woman challenged in toilets or changing rooms for not looking feminine enough.

Oh well...if Aurora has never seen it then we can disbelieve the countless women who say it is happening to them, cant we.

Even if they were challenged it would take very little to establish that they were female.

How? By insisting that they women display their fannies?

And you talk about women's dignity

 

[AuroraSaab]

But there has been a reported increase in incidents involving women who look a bit masculine.

Surely that's because 10 years ago however 'masculine' someone in the women's facilities looked it was pretty much guaranteed they were female. Unfortunately that is no longer guaranteed.

I agree, but in terms of enforceability it's a dead end. I was in the South Bank yesterday. There are loads of loos, all of which are empty for a lot of the day. It doesn't really matter who uses which loo. You can't police them so it's a dead end alley.

I agree with you that some spaces need protecting. I also agree with those who have pointed out that for many spaces there is protection anyway under the law, however I do have concerns about legal gender change and what that potentially means for the protection of women, particularly if legal gender change is made easier, as activists want.

Toilets really are the least of the problem and can be easily solved. It's really not about toilets.

 

[AndyRM]

And yet it seems to be the main topic of conversation in this thread, no matter how often others are introduced...

 

[AuroraSaab]

It already is (and vice versa). However a transwoman (a genuine one) is someone who by definition believes that they are a woman. Thus they would use the women's loo. The loo system operates on custom and belief. The trans ideology also operates on belief (at the present time).

Their sex remains male though however they perceive themselves. We wouldn't sanction people parking in disabled spaces because they believe themselves disabled.

 

[newfhouse]

A quick non invasive test like using thermal imaging. That most likely would reveal presence of a dick

So no sensible answer then. Why am I not surprised?