Gender again. Sorry!

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Firstly I don't agree with people who conflate Drag Queens with Transwomen. They are completely different things. Drag Queens do not wish to become women or pretend to be women.

I didn't intended too claim/say/or suggest Drag Queens or Trans persons are the same thing. However in this albeit acknowledging the difference between trans and drag queens i think is both equally wrong in the way they where stopped during those book readings sessions. the reason i mentioned them in one sentence is because they where the two groups invited this year and actively stopped by certain groups. (i should say being paid extra attention to the fact they where invited i don't known if they replaced all ''regular'' speakers which often are child book authors i think)

To understand why Linehan was campaigning against Mermaids you need to understand what Mermaids is about:-

Apart from that i am fundamentally against harrasing anything to get your war, which clearly did happen.

Linehan was not asking for Mermaids to be silenced. What he was asking is that serious thought be given as to why charity money should be given to a charity which specifically advocates for irreversible life changing medical and surgical intervention on children. In his view, and in the view of many people this is plain wrong.

I agree, i do think there are trans people and yes in some circumstances however as @AuroraSaab pointed out in lenghts and debts in this thread the current medical evidence is very flimpsy to say the least.
I agree that advocating too and even performing those operations in the way they are done right now is not correct. There should be an comprehensible medical assement be done prior and it doesn't seem to be the case currently. This is not only my opinion, a shared a part of a channnel 7 documentary a few post above, a few months ago a shared the story of a Canadian trans person who now wants assisted life ending because all the pain the gender correcting operation brought with them and continue to deliver.

Children in this position need safety and support. Let them do what they need to do for their mental health. But hormone treatment and surgery is in many people's view, not the right way forward. Let the kids grow up into adults. Support them, work with them and then once they are post puberty, then, maybe consider life changing treatment.

Agreed, for example in the Netherlands more and more now adult who got this kind of medicine and operations in their teens are coming out or ''de-transitioning'' because they now say they felt ''tricked'' at the time by getting all kind of medicine and procedures and the first hint of being trans while what they actually needed was mental help.

Even then, many would disagree with medical techniques being used to fundamentally maim / disfigure a perfectly normal body. If someone wants their leg chopped off, it doesn't matter how sincere they are about it. We don't do it.

Think a better example is women, if you had like a few children you don't want anymore and you want to have everything removed, it won't happen unless you have an medical issue.

This is an area that needs open discussion and much thought. My personal view is that this sort of surgery should not be available either via the NHS or privately. But then I would also ban private plastic surgery, which should be used only as treatment (e.g. for disfigurement due to injury). Enjoy your nose, your wrinkles etc. If you can't then it isn't the nose or the wrinkles that are the problem. Most people who have plastic surgery seem to have more and more of it - because how they look is not the problem.

Also agreed, whether or not it should be on the nhs is a seperate discussion, i think far more important is that they do provide proper care and not ''you think you're trans? let get you medicated and book in for surgery'' i mean for those who need it that should still be a way but there is nothing wrong with properly diagnosing if someone really needs it.
Also something i stumbled across is the quality if these operations and the side effects, the more your read the more it seems like poor teens in this situation are more seen as medical experiment then as patients.

 

[multitool]

To understand why Linehan was campaigning against Mermaids you need to understand what Mermaids is about:-

Linehan was not asking for Mermaids to be silenced. What he was asking is that serious thought be given as to why charity money should be given to a charity which specifically advocates for irreversible life changing medical and surgical intervention on children. In his view, and in the view of many people this is plain wrong.

St Linehan of Transphobia

 

[icowden]

St Linehan of Transphobia

You tend to resort to this when you don't have a counter argument.
Do you have a point of view about surgery and hormone blockers for teenagers?

I've never understood why they call it transphobia. I don't believe he or anyone else is afraid of trans people.

 

[classic33]

You tend to resort to this when you don't have a counter argument.
Do you have a point of view about surgery and hormone blockers for teenagers?

I've never understood why they call it transphobia. I don't believe he or anyone else is afraid of trans people.

There's a poster on here that appears afraid of them. Demonising them, if and when it suited their "case".
She'd not admit to it, but there's something about them that scares her. Admit that to herself, and she'd be able to move on.

 

[multitool]

You tend to resort to this when you don't have a counter argument.
Do you have a point of view about surgery and hormone blockers for teenagers?

Calm down, Ike. It was just my little joke.

I've never understood why they call it transphobia. I don't believe he or anyone else is afraid of trans people.

Certainly far-right agitators like Minshull are trying very hard to make people scared of trans women. This is why she refers to them as paedophiles.

Aurora too. She tries very hard to argue, against all facts, that trans women are incipient sex abusers and are trying to get into women's loos.

In fact, I seem to recall you have too with claims that some people claim to be trans just to get access to women for nefarious purposes, although I'd have to go back and check to be sure.

 

[CXRAndy]

Linehan flies up the Amazon best book seller, currently 2nd.

Off to buy his book too

 

[multitool]

Linehan flies up the Amazon best book seller, currently 2nd.

Off to buy his book too

Yep, grifters need a steady supply of mugs in order for the grift to work.

 

[multitool]

Oh look, it's already dropped to 4th in the 4 minutes since you posted

 

[icowden]

Oh look, it's already dropped to 4th in the 4 minutes since you posted

Considering these are pre-sales, I'm not sure the position is very relevant. Although to be 4th on best sellers against books which actually *are* out, is quite an achievement.

 

[icowden]

In fact, I seem to recall you have too with claims that some people claim to be trans just to get access to women for nefarious purposes, although I'd have to go back and check to be sure.

I don't recall that I have. In fact I have posted before to the effect that I tend to agree with you and @monkers about toilets and a great deal of protection being around regardless of legal status on gender.

I do think however that there are two groups of "trans" people (usually transwomen). There are genuinely trans people who need our support and kindness and then there are people like the lunatic wearing double zed prosthetic tits, whom I suspect are doing it for sexual kicks. It's these people that tend to be "called out" by the gender critical supporters, and it is the existence of these people which makes GC supporters think that we need to have protections in place.

 

[multitool]

Whilst I welcome your clarification, I take issue with your last point.

"GC supporters" have an issue with all trans people. The clue is in the GC bit.

 

[multitool]

Oh whoops...

 

[icowden]

Oh whoops...

Not sure what your point is. The book isn't out yet.

 

[multitool]

Not sure what your point is. The book isn't out yet.

I note you didn't address the same remark to CXRAndy

 

[icowden]

I note you didn't address the same remark to CXRAndy

He isn't the one giving the running commentary. Although it does also apply to his post.