Gender again. Sorry!

[bobzmyunkle]

Activists are calling on banning trans women from running in park fun runs spouting nonsense about biological advantage even though these are specifically community events that discourage competition.

Here we go again, Park Run isn't competitive.
Why not come and run my local Park Run? Start near the front and you may well get trampled by the 'non-competative' V70 women.
They're nice enough people and might buy you a coffee after while they put you right about your non-competative delusions.
Or you can start near the back and run round with the less competitive runners. Community event, something for everyone.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I think I'm now all done with feminism. Feminism, religious groups, the left wing, the right wing, all models of such utter toxicity; humanity is dead.

And I thought I was a misanthrope.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The reason for (some) separate comps in chess is the same reason why we have scholarships just for women in STEM subjects. It's to encourage female participation in areas that women have traditionally been underrepresented in. Interesting that the BBC find 3 people to complain about the ban but don't report those chess players who are in favour. Nobody has suggested it's because women's brains aren't as good at chess.

As to Park Run, men have an unfair advantage in these events, regardless of how they identify. Scientific research shows this conclusively. Whilst Park Run is presented as a 'fun run', they record personal times and course records. The organisation itself ranks runners and publicises and celebrates these times and records. If an event is going to record times by category (Sex, Age or whatever) then those categories should be fair.

Would it be fair for a 25 year old woman to have their results recorded in the Women's senior category in Park Run, beating everyone in that group easily? Of course not. PR even have separate graded results which account for age. You can compare your result with a figure that balances out age advantage. But they let men simply self identify straight into the Women's category ...

There are PR Women's records that are now held by men and are unlikely to ever be broken by a woman.

 

[monkers]

The reason for (some) separate comps in chess is the same reason why we have scholarships just for women in STEM subjects. It's to encourage female participation in areas that women have traditionally been underrepresented in. Interesting that the BBC find 3 people to complain about the ban but don't report those chess players who are in favour. Nobody has suggested it's because women's brains aren't as good at chess.

As to Park Run, men have an unfair advantage in these events, regardless of how they identify. Scientific research shows this conclusively. Whilst Park Run is presented as a 'fun run', they record personal times and course records. The organisation itself ranks runners and publicises and celebrates these times and records. If an event is going to record times by category (Sex, Age or whatever) then those categories should be fair.

Would it be fair for a 25 year old woman to have their results recorded in the Women's senior category in Park Run, beating everyone in that group easily? Of course not. PR even have separate graded results which account for age. You can compare your result with a figure that balances out age advantage. But they let men simply self identify straight into the Women's category ...

There are PR Women's records that are now held by men and are unlikely to ever be broken by a woman.

Park run records are intended to be PBs not course records according to the organisers.

Chess was discussed on this forum before in the context of sport. Without looking back, people were of the view, that banning trans people from chess tournaments would be ridiculous, and frankly I think your views beyond ridiculous. Women on Twitter seem to think so too.

I'm going to guess you were at Heaton Park that day.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Yet PR publicise and celebrate these records as course records, age records, sex records, so they should ensure fairness within those categories. Transwomen aren't banned from sports or chess. They are simply expected to compete in the category appropriate to their sex, for the many reasons already discussed.

 

[monkers]

And I thought I was a misanthrope.

Maybe you are; I have no idea. A misanthrope dislikes humankind; I do not. However I despair at this rewriting of humanity with its abandonment of human rights. The Tories have an agenda which reminds of 1930s Germany - the targets are the same - the non-indigenous people and religion, trade unionists, gay people, trans people, physically and mentally disabled people. We thought the UNDHR would fix this, but the Tories want to withdraw from the ECtHR, to scrap the UK Human Rights Act, and reinvent fascism as 'British Values'. If people have no sense of the danger, then I care for them, but those who shout in support of this I can not care for.

 

[monkers]

Yet PR publicise and celebrate these records as course records, age records, sex records, so they should ensure fairness within those categories. Transwomen aren't banned from sports or chess. They are simply expected to compete in the category appropriate to their sex, for the many reasons already discussed.

Do you know something AS? There was some accusation that I was stalking on this forum. I took a month away from here - stopped posting & stopped looking. I ignored emails that informed me that I was tagged. I looked back this morning to find that you stopped posting too. Immediately after I posted after a month away, you were back and replying to me. I am not the stalker.

I think you do this because I revealed my interest - I raised a trans child. Your intention is to try to hurt others. Cruelty is in your genes.

 

[classic33]

I agree, but that's from a mans perspective. Some patients would much prefer, even insist that only the same sex person does the intimate care. Its not an unreasonable request

It can be, and in much the same way as saying you don't want anyone who isn't the same skin colour near you, much less having anything to do with your care.
It's fine if you're paying for your care, in a private hospital. Make as many demands as you want. Then see what happens.

 

[mudsticks]

It can be, and in much the same way as saying you don't want anyone who isn't the same skin colour near you, much less having anything to do with your care.
It's fine if you're paying for your care, in a private hospital. Make as many demands as you want. Then see what happens.

It's not the same thing at all.

There's no higher prevalence of perpetrator in persons of different skin colour across populations.

Despite what may be inferred by people who go on about 'Asian grooming gangs'.

I can totally see how a woman who has experienced sexual abuse* at the hands of a man may well feel real distress upon being informed that there is no alternative to her recieving intimate care other than from a man.

Even GPs will usually try to assign a female doctor or nurse for certain procedures if asked.

*This is not an unusual experience for women at all - let's not pretend it is otherwise.

Although not to say it can never happen, the same cannot be said for men suffering sexual assault by women.

 

[icowden]

Anti-trans activists have been busying themselves in protesting non-competitive events recently too. Manchester fun run in Heaton park being one of the latest. Activists are calling on banning trans women from running in park fun runs spouting nonsense about biological advantage even though these are specifically community events that discourage competition.

A bit off the mark. The protest was about transwomen self-identifying into the women's category. Whilst Park Runs are described as "fun runs" and non competitive they still have mens and womens categories and rank people according to the time that they complete the course, complete with a "winner". Sounds er... competitive to me.

The issue is not about banning transwomen from running in Park Runs, just about them being unfairly included within the women's statistics. If you are using those stats to measure your performance against other people, having biological men in the women's category makes a mockery of it.

If, as they say, the Park Run is non competitive, why are they timing and categorising people and lauding the winners?

 

[icowden]

Do you know something AS? There was some accusation that I was stalking on this forum. I took a month away from here - stopped posting & stopped looking. I ignored emails that informed me that I was tagged. I looked back this morning to find that you stopped posting too. Immediately after I posted after a month away, you were back and replying to me. I am not the stalker.

So, after you posted on a public forum, you are surprised that someone else on a public forum replied to you after you posted something intended to elicit a reply from that person on the topic that you had previously been discussing with them?

 

[monkers]

So, after you posted on a public forum, you are surprised that someone else on a public forum replied to you after you posted something intended to elicit a reply from that person on the topic that you had previously been discussing with them?

If you can't spare the time to think before replying, then maybe don't post?

 

[AndyRM]

As a parkrun aside, it really is non-competitive. Some folks use it as a warm up run, training, whatever, but it really isn't a competitive event. Times are recorded to make sure people haven't been lost on the route, and split into categories purely for convenience and also as evidence for the organiser asking for more timing chips/scanners as required.

 

[icowden]

If you can't spare the time to think before replying, then maybe don't post?

Backatcha...

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Times are recorded to make sure people haven't been lost on the route

Really?