Gender again. Sorry!

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icowden

Legendary Member
There’s so much wrong with these two sentences that I can only assume you’re being deliberately offensive. Why?
Not sure what you see as wrong. Do you support the person in the picture wearing a T-Shirt that says "kill the TERF"? Do you think TERFs should be killed? Is that in anyway a reasonable argument?

Personally, and call me old fashioned, but I think that advocating for killing people means you have lost the argument (and possibly your marbles).
 

icowden

Legendary Member
Despite the extensive posting, AS and others of you have no idea about what makes me tick - to the point that AS has made several digs about 'my side'. My side is human rights, and not some ludicrous claim that women's rights includes the right not to have to play a trans woman in a game of chess, or the need to protest the presence of trans people in a fun run. There examples of Tee shirts worn by both sides of these activists is as bad as each other - makes me feel like banging their heads together - and I'm non-violent.
Then I think that you, Aurora and I are in agreement. Let's stop with the "kill people" campaign and actually have proper discussion about women's rights, trans rights and work out the best way forward. Lets stop no-platforming people and protesting about who should be able to do what, lets let experts speak and decide what is fair and what is not fair.

Where all this campaigning is getting us, is not a win for women's sex-based rights; ineed not, the government are using the tedium of the argument that they themselves are promoting as an excuse to abolish human rights.
Again, strong agreement.
 

Beebo

Veteran
I’ve run over 150 parkruns.
No one has ever checked my name against any listing. I could identify as any sex I wish and no one would know or have any way of checking.
Loads of people register and run with silly made up names or run anonymously and don’t record their time at all.
Anyone can use my barcode. Similarly I could register as an 8 year old, I can also take a massive short cut registering a finish time of 16 minutes. No one cares. There is simply no way of checking up on these things.
 
Not sure what you see as wrong.

Those that support the notion that men who identify as women should have the right to do this are very keen to kill and rape women judging by their slogans and T-Shirts.
I support the notion of self identity in most circumstances most of the time. I am neither a killer nor a rapist.

Personally, and call me old fashioned, but I think that advocating for killing people means you have lost the argument (and possibly your marbles).
Nobody has done so in this thread so it might be best to dial your hyperbole back a little.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
I support the notion of self identity in most circumstances most of the time. I am neither a killer nor a rapist.

Come off it, you know that was not aimed at you...unless you wear such a t-shirt. By the same token some people raise the issue of neo-nazis attending anti-trans events as if the others attending are nazis, when clearly they are not. There clearly are unpleasant, unreasonable people on both "sides".

The debate becomes toxic very swiftly and hyperbolic statements get thrown around by both "sides"...as today's little sortie has shown.

Pick a side and take offence at anything critical or contradictory the other side says.
 
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Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
humanity is dead
Indeed ...
Nobody has suggested it's because women's brains aren't as good at chess.
Why are there hardly any female composers? Why in an egalitarian society like Sweden are STEM about 80% male and 20% female? Could it be that men and women do not think the same way, are different?
Your intention is to try to hurt others. Cruelty is in your genes.
In which case it is not culpable because it is innate, unchosen. The claim to have been 'born this way' often made in connection with LGTB is a two-edged sword. You cannot complain about say those nasty religious people who oppose LGBT because the same explanation applies to their hostility - namely it is innate. Random biological predestination.
I want human rights for all humans
The problem in this thread is, if you are considering this from a rights angle, you have two sets of claimed rights that are in conflict with each other. Who gets the casting vote to decide whose rights trump the others?
 

monkers

Legendary Member
In which case it is not culpable because it is innate, unchosen. The claim to have been 'born this way' often made in connection with LGTB is a two-edged sword. You cannot complain about say those nasty religious people who oppose LGBT because the same explanation applies to their hostility - namely it is innate. Random biological predestination.

The problem in this thread is, if you are considering this from a rights angle, you have two sets of claimed rights that are in conflict with each other. Who gets the casting vote to decide whose rights trump the others?
Do I believe that cruelty is biologically in AS's genes? No I don't - it's figurative - it means that I believe cruelty has become easy to her and she's comfortable with it to the extent that she enjoys it.

Beyond that error, there is considerable overreach because you are addressing me as though I am someone who says 'born this way' or 'born in the wrong body' because I don't. New born babies have such limited sentience that they can not know that they are straight or gay, cis or trans.

It's not that people who say these things are lying; it's simply a useful shorthand for saying, I've always been this way - meaning since the time that they had that level of self-knowledge. The born in the wrong body statement is not literal either - it's figurative, a shorthand to help people who struggle to understand what it must be like. The more mature explanation of incongruence is a more sophisticated and accurate explainer of what it feels to be trans. Gender identity is in that sense innate, but not in the literal sense of programmed in a person's DNA and congruency is certainly not pre-determined by the action of a fictitious other worldly being.

Throughout the history of the Earth all lifeforms have undergone evolution and the process continues - humans are not an exception, our bodies have parts thought to be vestigial through evolution that should be continue to exist will ultimately disappear. We can not stand in the way of evolution. As a result 'nature' however you care to define it loves diversity; but many humans seem to be the only species that do not.

Human rights are concerned with the rights of humans to live their own life of self-determination. There is no right for people to interfere in that right or to remove it. There is no such thing as women's sex-based rights in equality law - that is a fiction. There is no actual conflict in human rights law concerning gender identity and biological sex, just the pretence that there is. The claims are false. Don't believe me? Read the texts.

Women do have certain legal rights that are available to them, such as the right to breast feed their child wherever they like, but that is not found in equality law as a sex-based right.

We are free to choose our own path. We are required to accept that all others are free too and we are required to respect those people and the law that makes it so. Human rights law is being maliciously misrepresented by those who are keen to promote their own rights and even more keen to remove the rights of others to the extent that they wish to repeal human rights legislation.
 
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