Gender again. Sorry!

[CXRAndy]

It won't be that.

It'll be that he has had to lock down his account because of a pile on of freaks

Bitter taste of his own medicine

 

[AndyRM]

I’ve run over 150 parkruns.
No one has ever checked my name against any listing. I could identify as any sex I wish and no one would know or have any way of checking.
Loads of people register and run with silly made up names or run anonymously and don’t record their time at all.
Anyone can use my barcode. Similarly I could register as an 8 year old, I can also take a massive short cut registering a finish time of 16 minutes. No one cares. There is simply no way of checking up on these things.

Fair enough. There is. But I suppose it depends on who is running the show.

 

[AndyRM]

Indeed ...

Why are there hardly any female composers? Why in an egalitarian society like Sweden are STEM about 80% male and 20% female? Could it be that men and women do not think the same way, are different?

In which case it is not culpable because it is innate, unchosen. The claim to have been 'born this way' often made in connection with LGTB is a two-edged sword. You cannot complain about say those nasty religious people who oppose LGBT because the same explanation applies to their hostility - namely it is innate. Random biological predestination.

The problem in this thread is, if you are considering this from a rights angle, you have two sets of claimed rights that are in conflict with each other. Who gets the casting vote to decide whose rights trump the others?

Hardly any female composers? Are you joking?

 

[CXRAndy]

Why in an egalitarian society like Sweden are STEM about 80% male and 20% female?

Jordon Peterson uses this example all the time to shoot down equality of outcome advocates.

Men and women are different, have different interests and skills.

Scandinavian countries made the perfect test-bed to sh!t on these equality of outcome crusaders

 

[icowden]

Jordon Peterson uses this example all the time to shoot down equality of outcome advocates.
Men and women are different, have different interests and skills.

It's a crap argument though. One of the reasons that far more men are in STEM than women is that women get put off it early on. Studies have shown that girls who attend all girls schools are far more likely to go down the STEM route than those in mixed sex schools. There is still a lot of perception than science is somehow unladylike or for the boys.

https://x.com/RachelRileyRR/status/1699453704003301673?s=20

 

[newfhouse]

Jordon Peterson

 

[monkers]

J

Men and women are different, have different interests and skills.

There seems to be two of you in this conversation saying that brains are gendered. Both of you I think I'm right in saying are gender critical folk - therefore denying the existence of gender identity. If brains are gendered, why is it so unlikely that a person would be unable to have a sense of the gender of their brain? Genuine question; I'm interested to know how you got to these conclusions.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The research from Sweden is interesting but it seems obvious that you can't undo hundreds of years of cultural socialisation and gendered expectations in a few decades, even if you can offer equality of opportunity. Look how slowly things change in society in general.

If you look at the quote tweets of the doctor's tweet you will see plenty of NHS staff telling him he is wrong and welcoming the clarity of the new announcement.

 

[AndyRM]

Jordon Peterson uses this example all the time to shoot down equality of outcome advocates.

Men and women are different, have different interests and skills.

Scandinavian countries made the perfect test-bed to sh!t on these equality of outcome crusaders

Jordan Peterson is an absolute melt.

 

[mudsticks]

Indeed ...

Why are there hardly any female composers? Why in an egalitarian society like Sweden are STEM about 80% male and 20% female? Could it be that men and women do not think the same way, are different?

It's a crap argument though. One of the reasons that far more men are in STEM than women is that women get put off it early on. Studies have shown that girls who attend all girls schools are far more likely to go down the STEM route than those in mixed sex schools. There is still a lot of perception than science is somehow unladylike or for the boys.

https://x.com/RachelRileyRR/status/1699453704003301673?s=20

Can confirm having spend my career in a trad male gendered stem occupation (and many of my leisure pursuits being same) there have been, and still are many barriers to women taking part .

I've encountered ongoing sexism that has had to be resisted (which takes up valuable energy - thanks patriachy for that extra unseen work!)

I've succeeded (but had the advantage of being brought up by feminists) but plenty of others have given up on account of many barriers, and pitfalls both visible and invisible still being in place.
Same is reported in other stem fields - it's not long since we heard of female surgeons being sexually harassed - and this is by supposedly educated intelligent men.

Even if women do succeed against the odds, their achievements are often talked down, and or misattributed to any other man who happens to be in the area.


It's been a while now since I've been referred to as 'The Farmers wife' for instance but it's a not uncommon happenstance.
On their own some of these micro aggressions aren't much - over time they add up to a lot.

I have a lot of contact with young women and non binary folks coming into my field

Sadly they're still experiencing quite a lot of the same pushback. And deliberately gendered gatekeeping, it's not gone away.

 

[mudsticks]

Jordan Peterson is an absolute melt.

Pseudo intellectual with very low self awareness, and massively over inflated ego.

With zero insight into the experience of being a woman under patriachy, or it's effects on society in general..

I very much doubt he even has any interest in the above.
I can just imagine him 'glazing over' if any of these 'feminist sorts' tried to educate him

-----
Wherever he goes, he speaks in sermons about the inevitability of who we must be.

“You know you can say, ‘Well isn’t it unfortunate that chaos is represented by the feminine’ — well, it might be unfortunate, but it doesn’t matter because that is how it’s represented. It’s been represented like that forever. And there are reasons for it. You can’t change it. It’s not possible. This is underneath everything. If you change those basic categories, people wouldn’t be human anymore. They’d be something else. They’d be transhuman or something. We wouldn’t be able to talk to these new creatures.”

As an example of the 'Great' Man's work.. 🙄

 

[Ian H]

Pseudo intellectual with very low self awareness, and massively over inflated ego.

With zero insight into the experience of being a woman under patriachy, or it's effects on society in general..

I very much doubt he even has any interest in the above.
I can just imagine him 'glazing over' if any of these 'feminist sorts' tried to educate him

-----
Wherever he goes, he speaks in sermons about the inevitability of who we must be.

“You know you can say, ‘Well isn’t it unfortunate that chaos is represented by the feminine’ — well, it might be unfortunate, but it doesn’t matter because that is how it’s represented. It’s been represented like that forever. And there are reasons for it. You can’t change it. It’s not possible. This is underneath everything. If you change those basic categories, people wouldn’t be human anymore. They’d be something else. They’d be transhuman or something. We wouldn’t be able to talk to these new creatures.”

As an example of the 'Great' Man's work.. 🙄

That esoteric field of philosophy known as meta-bollocks. It's like a long-winded joke without a punchline.

 

[mudsticks]

That esoteric field of philosophy known as meta-bollocks. It's like a long-winded joke without a punchline.

Trouble is a lot of people still do hang on his words as if he's got something useful to impart...

It would be funny, if he wasn't taken so absolutely seriously, by so many 🙄

 

[multitool]

Just going to...ahem...leave this here...

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/03/16/transphobia-and-the-far-right/

 

[icowden]

Just going to...ahem...leave this here...
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/03/16/transphobia-and-the-far-right/

It's a good article. It would be interesting to see a comparable article about the connection between people who see themselves as trans and the violent anti-feminist movement that is associated with their views. There seems to a be a rough spectrum that goes:-

Nazis -----> Radical TERFS -----> People who support / are tolerant of people who are trans but also want to make sure things are equitable and sensible ---> Transmen and Transwomen ---> People who support trans but think Lesbians should put up and shut up ---> People using Trans as a sexual fetish ---> People who think TERFS should be murdered / raped / silenced