Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

Just an observation but there are two women (that I know of ) contributing to this thread.

...and the thread starter. She's a woman. Go back and have a read and see why she pretty much gave up.

You constantly deride and try to silence them, tell them their opinions are worthless and that we should bask in your intellect.

One of them I don't bother engaging with, pretty much by mutual agreement. The other I do. I think you mistake disagreeing with somebody with "trying to silence". I derided AS's tactics once, and I stand by it. I haven't mentioned my intellect...although, compared to you I'm a giant. You are, after all, the man who didn't know what a 'rate' meant.

Then you claim that we are using misogyny as an attack line.

Do you own a mirror?

This from a man who changes his mask (avatar) on a daily basis

Again - taking a step back and looking in the mirror may be worthwhile.

Mate, "we"???? You forget who you are.
You are icowden. The Human Vuvuzela.

Droning out the thread.


View: https://youtu.be/bKCIFXqhLzo

 

[multitool]

But, qigong chimp is right. I said pages back that this is pointless. It's AS and me going back on forth, saying the same thing over and over again. AS is repeating a seductive myth. I'm pointing out that several government bodies have undertaken extensive research for evidence that this myth is true, and all have come to the conclusion that it is a myth. Even the UK government (which was pro Self ID under Theresa May, and now fully signed up to the culture wars around racism and transphobia,) are not invoking the bathroom myth.

Going to pop over to Ireland and see if their female spaces have been swamped with predators as AS assures us will happen...

 

[icowden]

One of them I don't bother engaging with, pretty much by mutual agreement. The other I do. I think you mistake disagreeing with somebody with "trying to silence". I derided AS's tactics once, and I stand by it. I haven't mentioned my intellect...although, compared to you I'm a giant. You are, after all, the man who didn't know what a 'rate' meant.

No, you have consistently derided @AuroraSaab. You can't even be bothered to use her handle because for you she is beneath contempt, just as I am because I haven't yet managed to work out what you are blathering on about with rate. You refuse to explain because you are so vastly superior. Either that or you have no explanation and thus resort to petty insults.

Honestly I thought @jowwy was the lowest we could reach over here. Thank you for proving me wrong.

Mate, "we"???? You forget who you are.
You are icowden. The Human Vuvuzela.

And there you go again. The patronising, contemptuous output that you are famed for. Why not try positively engaging with the discussion instead of shutting it down? Isn't that what this thread is about? It's not about you trying to win because you are the greatest debater. It's about realising that a conversation needs to happen and that there are two sides to that discussion. If you think that my position is wrong, try to convince me rather than walking around with your fingers in your ears or complaining that I am just making noise.

For you there is only one side. Yours. You are no different from any of the other people screaming that not saying Trans Women are Women is a hate crme.

Apologies to @theclaud for missing her out of my list of female contributors to the thread that you consistently try to belittle and silence.

 

[jowwy]

No, you have consistently derided @AuroraSaab. You can't even be bothered to use her handle because for you she is beneath contempt, just as I am because I haven't yet managed to work out what you are blathering on about with rate. You refuse to explain because you are so vastly superior. Either that or you have no explanation and thus resort to petty insults.

Honestly I thought @jowwy was the lowest we could reach over here. Thank you for proving me wrong.


And there you go again. The patronising, contemptuous output that you are famed for. Why not try positively engaging with the discussion instead of shutting it down? Isn't that what this thread is about? It's not about you trying to win because you are the greatest debater. It's about realising that a conversation needs to happen and that there are two sides to that discussion. If you think that my position is wrong, try to convince me rather than walking around with your fingers in your ears or complaining that I am just making noise.

For you there is only one side. Yours. You are no different from any of the other people screaming that not saying Trans Women are Women is a hate crme.

Apologies to @theclaud for missing her out of my list of female contributors to the thread that you consistently try to belittle and silence.

at least ive never started a thread just to abuse people......

ive also not made any racist, misogynistic or sexiest comments, like other members here. i may have abused the one, but then it wouldn't matter if it was a man, woman, dog, cat or whatever you SelfID as these days. You abuse me, you get it back tenfold

 

[mudsticks]

No, you have consistently derided @AuroraSaab. You can't even be bothered to use her handle because for you she is beneath contempt, just as I am because I haven't yet managed to work out what you are blathering on about with rate. You refuse to explain because you are so vastly superior. Either that or you have no explanation and thus resort to petty insults.

Honestly I thought @jowwy was the lowest we could reach over here. Thank you for proving me wrong.


And there you go again. The patronising, contemptuous output that you are famed for. Why not try positively engaging with the discussion instead of shutting it down? Isn't that what this thread is about? It's not about you trying to win because you are the greatest debater. It's about realising that a conversation needs to happen and that there are two sides to that discussion. If you think that my position is wrong, try to convince me rather than walking around with your fingers in your ears or complaining that I am just making noise.

For you there is only one side. Yours. You are no different from any of the other people screaming that not saying Trans Women are Women is a hate crme.

Apologies to @theclaud for missing her out of my list of female contributors to the thread that you consistently try to belittle and silence.

Ime genuinely intelligent people (and that includes emotionally intelligent people) don't have to go around telling the world how vastly superior their debating skills are, or how vast their intellect is.

They'll just say what they feel they have to say, without the need to put others down.

The constant dimishing of other people is often a sign of insecurity or weakness, or in some cases just a massively over inflated ego 🤔.

Often it's just plain old fashioned bullying, utilising already existing, unequal power structures

Some folks seem to get away with doing it, cos the bullies 'henchmen' think he's the coolest thing ever.

Others are not so easily impressed.

Ah well, happy Friday all..

 

[multitool]

No, you have consistently derided @AuroraSaab. You can't even be bothered to use her handle because for you she is beneath contempt, just as I am because I haven't yet managed to work out what you are blathering on about with rate. You refuse to explain because you are so vastly superior. Either that or you have no explanation and thus resort to petty insults.

I don't engage with you because you are the cyberspace equivalent of a Jack Russell following me round trying to dry-hump my leg. You bring nothing to this thread other than an annoying droning noise.

And there you go again. The patronising, contemptuous output that you are famed for. Why not try positively engaging with the discussion instead of shutting it down? Isn't that what this thread is about? It's not about you trying to win because you are the greatest debater. It's about realising that a conversation needs to happen and that there are two sides to that discussion. If you think that my position is wrong, try to convince me rather than walking around with your fingers in your ears or complaining that I am just making noise.

For you there is only one side. Yours. You are no different from any of the other people screaming that not saying Trans Women are Women is a hate crme.

You are entirely right, but for the minor point that nowhere have I put forward my view on the nomenclature (look it up) of trans women.

 

[Ian H]

Interesting comment about the Scottish case, posted in another forum, from a woman I know slightly. She says the actual problem is this -

We know there's lots of rapists walking around out there uncharged, unconvicted, unrestrained for a range of reasons.

This [The Bryson case] is a distraction, a disturbingly conveniently timed one.

 

[multitool]

There were 3 rapes in my small town over the last 12 months. Nobody charged. Even if they are charged they won't go to court for another year.

And here we are wanging on about something that isnt actually happening in countries which already have Self ID. The evidence is that there is an initial bump in applications for GRC, but these are existing trans people who previously couldn't face the indignities involved in the previous system. There aren't hordes of abusers.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Did the Scottish Procurator Fiscal arrange the date of the court case to coincide with the bill going through? I'm not sure who else has the power to bring about 'conveniently timed distractions' like rape prosecutions.

 

[mudsticks]

Interesting comment about the Scottish case, posted in another forum, from a woman I know slightly. She says the actual problem is this -

We know there's lots of rapists walking around out there uncharged, unconvicted, unrestrained for a range of reasons.

This [The Bryson case] is a distraction, a disturbingly conveniently timed one.

We're back again to
Why do women need 'safe spaces' so much anyway.?

Why do we as women have a tendency to be nervous around male bodied people, particularly in vulnerable situations, in the first place.?

It's the 'elephant in the room' that mustn't be spoken about too loudly or really acknowledged very much for fear of being seen as doing that terrible crime of making a big old fuss or claiming 'victimhood' right?

As has been said before , howsabout showing a bit more energy and enthusiasm for tackling more generalised misogyny, and VAWAG.
Women wanting their own safe spaces is so often erroneously portrayed as 'transphobia' whereas, it isn't that at all, it's just a natural tendency to want to 'be safe'
Or at least safer.

 

[multitool]

Most women are happy to have TW in women's spaces. Let's not forget this.

 

[qigong chimp]

I think we've pretty much covered it.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I think we've pretty much covered it.

View: https://youtu.be/pmUKmW4BYXM

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Again, and respectfully, I understand your opinions, though there are parts of them with which I disagree.

I think there will always be difficult aspects to this debate which can be tricky.

Does it come down to genitals? Or anatomy in general? I'm not so sure.

Is it about self-ID or anything along those lines? Again I'm not sure.

I think coming down to ''genitals'' or ''anatomy'' doesn't have to be the case however a few things, there are lots of biological born men an women that have a more manly or womanly anatomy for example

- seeing some people who identify as something make me more think they need menthal health, don't get me wrong, i fully respect their freedom, however if you spend tons of money on cosmetic surgery and than want to be adressed as korean (with stripes in between etc.) because you identify as Korean, i think it's more off a menthal issue.

- Self-id it sounds great if you're a person struggling with his/her/their identity, however there is also an group in between, i think self-id isn't really an help for them because the first thing they need is mental help from someone who is trained to help them get things together. Without an agenda for the one side or the other. (which is what rumored went wrong at the Travistock clinic)

- There is also an group of i should say former trans people who want to de-transition they feel abused by the ''trans'' lobby and therefore are more trapped then they already where.. is that really an effect we want? or should we as society get control back and ensure equal rights are the norm, not the loudest screamers?

 

[Ian H]

I think this quote from a well-known QC just about covers it.

I think we've pretty much covered it.