Gender again. Sorry!

[qigong chimp]

You're conflating Jimmy Savile's criminality with being a lesbian?

 

[AndyRM]

Being queer was, and still is for some people, equated with being a paedophile.

A vile c*nt attitude of the highest order.

 

[multitool]

Today's anti-trans stance is yesterday's homophobia.

 

[fozy tornip]

Perhaps we ought to think more soberly about what happens at death. It's the last enemy for everyone.

"...The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,
And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at the end to arrest it,
And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.

All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,
And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier."

Whitman

 

[Pale Rider]

The smallest sprout

Reminds me it will soon be Christmas.

I hope the growing season is going well.

 

[Unkraut]

"...The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,
Whitman

Walt Whitman, May 31, 1819 to March 26, 1892

 

[Unkraut]

You're conflating Jimmy Savile's criminality with being a lesbian?

Hardly. I didn't think being a lesbian was a criminal offence, so it is not comparing like with like.

 

[monkers]

I wasn't talking about controlling anybody. Rather the outworking of two worldviews and the implications of them. In an atheist universe, if someone wants to leave their wife for someone else younger and healthier, why shouldn't they? You shall not commit adultery is only an opinion, you can take it or leave it, and you will never have to give an account for it. When Savile died, during his last breath he could smile and say I got away with it. Those who enabled and covered for him could also breath a sigh of relief, what they had done will no longer come to light in an earthly court. Since none of us survive in this universe, why even bother about concepts such as justice and rights? The universe is amoral.

I didn't say you were talking about controlling anybody. I am saying what the religious doctrine causes so many of you to do. You, as a member of that gang intervene on this thread and more widely in society to say if we are not in your gang, then we are all sinners and will roast in hell. You are bringing your personal belief in some sky fairy friend here pushing fear-based superstitious nonsense.

This is followed by a very false premise indeed, that if we atheists do not subscribe to your cruelty that we are bad people, with bad morals. Yet it is I, not you, who speaks of human rights, human dignity, democracy, and adherence to the law.

The Israel / Palestine conflict is both nothing to do with this thread, but religious dogma, borders, and the ambitions of snake-eye politicians has.

Religion is not without its own politics, and they are the ugliest of all. A war with a history of multiple religions in conflict tainted by the most appalling double-dealing of the then British governments in the early to middle 20th century. I'm embarrassed by the history of British involvement, but not as a member of the queer community, but as person with better morals than those war mongering believers. You are in no position to lecture atheists.

People who are variously agnostic, atheist, or humanist require no lectures from the warring cowards who justify cruelty with their false shield of cover from their religious bigotry.

We require no god in order for people to commit to live together in harmony - rather the opposite. The history of the Church of England is founded on the cruelty of one man with loose morals - how can it possibly present itself as a force for good?

I'll defend your human right to believe what you like. However, your belief is just for you, and your life. In no way should be used to judge all others not in your gang, and where you use it to kick others, I'll kick back.

 

[qigong chimp]

Hardly. I didn't think being a lesbian was a criminal offence, so it is not comparing like with like.

You didn't mention criminality, but you did lazily and stupidly blend them together as moral failings.

 

[qigong chimp]

Walt Whitman, May 31, 1819 to March 26, 1892

Yes, that Whitman.

 

[monkers]

Hardly. I didn't think being a lesbian was a criminal offence, so it is not comparing like with like.

It amply displayed your line of thinking. Within one paragraph I read of your denial of being controlling, warned that those not in your gang will roast in hell, mentioned the LGBT community, and ended with Savile. That is the line of your thinking, and that is how you came to write what you did, all emanating from an obvious fiction.

 

[Unkraut]

conflict tainted by the most appalling double-dealing of the then British governments in the early to middle 20th century. I'm embarrassed by the history of British involvement,

See the penultimate paragraph of my latest post on the Israel thread #960.

 

[monkers]

A lot of the problem as I understand it stems from the stupid British during the mandate. They tried to allow immigration into the land by both Jews and Arabs, a sure recipe for conflict. They then tried to prevent Jewish immigration from Europe, even sending them back to camps in Germany. Some time ago I heard an Israeli pastor (an Englishman listening to a Polish Jew speaking German!) who was a holocaust survivor recount his experiences in Poland and the Warsaw uprising, and subsequent mistreatment by the British when he attempted to get to Israel. In the circumstances not the country's finest hour.

''Stupid'' not my choice of adjective! But yes I agree that the problem was made in Britain by snake-eye politicians who were perfectly prepared to let the obvious clash of ideologies proceed without conscience as they were keen to grab Iraq in the process for the oil fields (which they did).

Religion is a doctrine and an ideology. It serves to divide people and offers them a defence for murderous intention and much other cruelty. How I wish it could just fade away to nothing, and the sooner the better.

WW1 and WW2 were obvious cases of identity politics - there's nothing new in it. The identity politics on TERF island are propagated by this government for similar reasons, a distraction while snake-eye politicians take whatever they want. They have a long history of getting away with it.

It is less that successive British governments are ''stupid'' but the members of the electorate who are stupid enough to be allow themselves to be recruited to vote for them.

As Britain heads to the polls at the next election, it will be just more of the same - choose to be eaten by wolves or lions.

 

[icowden]

Perhaps we ought to think more soberly about what happens at death. It's the last enemy for everyone

That's a depressing way of looking at it. I always preferred Pratchett's take on death as the sort of chap who turns up to help the elderly or prematurely dead into whatever they think might be happening next.

Unless they did something bad to a cat.

 

[Deleted member 121]

God has been replace by Self and personal autonomy.

Which is a fantastic thing...