Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

Testosterone plays a part. I must be a real male

You certainly seem to think so. A bit of over-compensation going on there I reckon.

 

[monkers]

Of course you are, it suits your delusional concept.

There are male and female in mammalian creatures

Do you need it to be written on a bit of paper for you in case you forget? Or does something in your head tell you that you are a man?

 

[Deleted member 159]

You certainly seem to think so. A bit of over-compensation going on there I reckon.

Maybe, I do have a huge trunk on my truck

 

[monkers]

You presented the graph to further your argument. If it wasn't representative then say so, if it's factually incorrect accept it with good grace.

It's literally written on it in great big letters. All that testosterone seems to be ruining your eyesight! But then I wonder what is stopping AS from reading two words?

Here it is again - 'BIMODAL PATTERN' - can you see it now?

 

[monkers]

People with dsds aren't half male-half female by the way, as your image suggests. It's very insulting to suggest they are some sort of male/female hybrid. They are either male or female, with a medical condition that has affected their development in utero.

When you attempt to words into my mouth in some attempt to embarrass me, you only serve to embarrass yourself.

The image does not say or suggest any such thing, furthermore none of the words used by me do either. This is a piss poor attempt to win the argument by use of deceit.

You should retract this.

 

[Unkraut]

if determining sex is so important at birth

Sex is not determined or assigned at birth, but rather at conception. At birth the doctor does not assign sex so much as recognise it.

Women have the right to express their own sense of self.

Even if you grant this right, does this entail expecting others to go alone with this subjective concept of self?

Because like a woman, a man has the right to live their life without interference from others.

Why not say a man has the right to live his life ...

That attitude all seems a bit Stonehenge to me.

I'm afraid I think the people who built Stonehenge had a much clearer idea of male and female than today's confused generation.

 

[monkers]

Sex is not determined or assigned at birth, but rather at conception.

Even if you grant this right, does this entail expecting others to go alone with this subjective concept of self?

Why not say a man has the right to live his life ...

I'm afraid I think the people who built Stonehenge had a much clearer idea of male and female than today's confused generation.

'Assigned at birth' is the term in legal use. I don't happen to favour it either. It is biologically determined very early on we might agree, but you might say sex is determined at birth since it is determined what will be stated on the paperwork. I prefer to say sex recorded at birth, but I do not expect all to agree.

I'm not in the position of granting anything; but the United Nations say that people have free determination. Where is the harm in doing for others what you might expect they might do for you?

A person has the right to live their life regardless of their sex or gender identity. Who are you to say otherwise? Or does having a faith also gift the right to play at being God?

I'm not able to say who the first people were to have a gender identity incongruent with their sex. Frederic Chopin may well have been trans by all accounts' likewise his lover Georg Sands who by all accounts was born female but wore mens clothing and smoked cigars. Seems that not much fuss was made about it back in the day. Going further back it is appears that the Roman Emporor Elagabalus (3rdcentury), born male, insisted on female pronouns.

In England at one time, all children were called 'girls'. What we now call boys were 'knave girls', while what we now call 'girls' were called 'gay girls'. Yes really! Furthermore, knave girls were usually dressed in pink by custom, and gay girls in blue.

Customs change, and it has little if anything to do with faith or bible teaching.

 

[Deleted member 159]

A person has the right to live their life regardless of their sex or gender identity

Not to interfere with other peoples rights, trans does, especially the men calling themselves women

 

[monkers]

Not to interfere with other peoples rights, trans does, especially the men calling themselves women

Parliamentarians have made it so that successful applicants can have their gender identity recognised by the state and put protections in place because they know that there are bigots of all kinds out there.

The law sets out to protect trans people from people like you because people have the right to live their own lives without the interference of people like you with aggrieved entitlement.

 

[AuroraSaab]

That's a No to explaining the graph you yourself introduced to the discussion to support your argument then.

Frederic Chopin may well have been trans by all accounts' likewise his lover Georg Sands who by all accounts was born female but wore mens clothing and smoked cigars. Seems that not much fuss was made about it back in the day. Going further back it is appears that the Roman Emporor Elagabalus (3rdcentury), born male, insisted on female pronouns.

Georges Sand was a woman who smoked and wore trousers, and did plenty of other stuff, that defied the sexist expectations (and laws) of French society at the time.

Like many other women she adopted a male pen name to get published.

Stop transing dead people.

 

[Deleted member 159]

right to live their own lives

You can do what you like, just don't infringe/invade mine or anybody else

 

[monkers]

That's a No to explaining the graph you yourself introduced to the discussion to support your argument then.



Georges Sand was a woman who smoked and wore trousers, and did plenty of other stuff, that defied the sexist expectations (and laws) of French society at the time.

Like many other women she adopted a male pen name to get published.

Stop transing dead people.

Do you know what 'by all accounts' means?

Dead people tend not to mind what people say about them. It wasn't just a pen name, it was an adopted persona.

Victor Hugo commented, "George Sand cannot determine whether she is male or female. I entertain a high regard for all my colleagues, but it is not my place to decide whether she is my sister or my brother." (from wiki)

 

[icowden]

A person has the right to live their life regardless of their sex or gender identity. Who are you to say otherwise? Or does having a faith also gift the right to play at being God?

I don't think that many people would take issue with that. The issues arise when one very small group of people starts trampling on the rights of another group of formerly marginalised people and insisting on things that would be patently unfair.

I'm not able to say who the first people were to have a gender identity incongruent with their sex. Frederic Chopin may well have been trans by all accounts'

Or just gay. I can't find any references to him dressing or behaving like a woman. There does seem to be an obsession with redefining gay as trans.

likewise his lover Georg Sands who by all accounts was born female but wore mens clothing and smoked cigars. Seems that not much fuss was made about it back in the day.

Given that George Sands was a pen name for Amantine Lucile Aurore Dupin de Francueil, who was a woman then yes, she was born female. She also died female and lived her entire life whilst being a woman. George was the feminine form of Georges, so she stuck with a feminine name even though she liked to dress in what was considered to be male clothing and to smoke tobacco. She was bisexual having affairs with both men and women. Yet again, there is no evidence that she wished to become a man, only that she found having a somewhat mysterious and confused identity useful in terms of being published.

Going further back it is appears that the Roman Emporor Elagabalus (3rdcentury), born male, insisted on female pronouns.

This one needs to have caution exercised as there is only information from a single source, Cassius Dio, who was somewhat antagonistic towards Elagabalus.

In England at one time, all children were called 'girls'.

Words change in usage. Gorl meant child. It had nothing to do with gender.

What we now call boys were 'knave girls', while what we now call 'girls' were called 'gay girls'. Yes really!

Words change. Gay had no sexual connotations.

 

[monkers]

You can do what you like, just don't infringe/invade mine or anybody else

I think your scribblings show that it is you that is prepared to infringe/invade trans people and intent on doing so.

 

[icowden]

Victor Hugo commented, "George Sand cannot determine whether she is male or female. I entertain a high regard for all my colleagues, but it is not my place to decide whether she is my sister or my brother." (from wiki)

No - he is reported as having commented. You will notice that wiki has no citation for this. It seems to be reported a lot on websites, but no-one seems to mention a reputable source for the comment.