Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

A reminder of what you said, and what I replied to.
How can someone misgender you as you have said, if you AuroraSaab do not have a gender identity?

You constantly talk in riddles.

We're all using the term 'misgendering' presumably because we all understand what it means. I could just have easily used 'correctly/incorrectly sexed'. I'll use that term if you'd rather.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This implies that as you reject the notion of gender identity that you would use your freedom to call a person he, regardless of their preferences, stated or otherwise, if you suspected them to be a biological male.

No it doesn't. I think you shouldn't be compelled to use someone's preferred pronouns if you don't wish to. What people do in individual circumstances is up to them surely.

Presumably you'd also object to calling trans man "he".

I don't object. I don't think you should be compelled to if you don't want to.

You later caveat it by saying you would employ the pronoun "they", which seems odd, given your absolutist stance. "They" is either a tacit acceptance of gender ideology, or a safe word to employ if one is not sure of a person's sex. But what if you were sure?

No, it's a compromise between using the pronouns appropriate to a person's sex and deliberately using ones they would prefer you not to. We use 'they' all the time in discussing others, both when we know their sex and when we don't.

 

[AndyRM]

No - but it does happen, which is what I think @monkers was getting at.

Sometimes it all seems a bit daft and unnecessary though. For example at my daughter's new workplace / Saturday job they all have pronouns on their badges. She felt it was a bit daft as everyone working there currently uses normal pronouns. I agree. Surely if you want people to use different pronouns then sure - put them on your badge, but if they are normal it all seems a bit over earnest "mustn't upset anyone" etc.

Pronoun introduction is a relatively new thing.

 

[Bromptonaut]

No - but it does happen, which is what I think @monkers was getting at.

Sometimes it all seems a bit daft and unnecessary though. For example at my daughter's new workplace / Saturday job they all have pronouns on their badges. She felt it was a bit daft as everyone working there currently uses normal pronouns. I agree. Surely if you want people to use different pronouns then sure - put them on your badge, but if they are normal it all seems a bit over earnest "mustn't upset anyone" etc.

Pronouns on badges, email signatures etc even where everybody uses their 'normal'/birth pronouns is to normalise the practice. We're encouraged, but not instructed, to do it where I work - an advice charity.

Bit late if you suddenly do it when a trans employee comes along - or they're the only one with a pronoun.

 

[icowden]

Bit late if you suddenly do it when a trans employee comes along - or they're the only one with a pronoun.

Why? If one person wants to be different - isn't that OK? Why do we all have to change what we do? If someone arrives at work and is in a wheelchair, we make sure the workplace is accessible. We don't all start using Wheelchairs to show solidarity.

So if there is a place to show it on the badge and someone wants to show it- let them. But don't make a point of insisting that everyone puts their pronouns on their badge when for 99% (or even 100%) it's completely pointless.

 

[newfhouse]

If one person wants to be different - isn't that OK?

It is, but many people just want to live their lives quietly without being a focus of attention.

encouraged

insisting

These words have different meanings.

 

[monkers]

Why? If one person wants to be different - isn't that OK? Why do we all have to change what we do? If someone arrives at work and is in a wheelchair, we make sure the workplace is accessible. We don't all start using Wheelchairs to show solidarity.

So if there is a place to show it on the badge and someone wants to show it- let them. But don't make a point of insisting that everyone puts their pronouns on their badge when for 99% (or even 100%) it's completely pointless.

Because we are all different anyway. Diversity should mean richness, not a lack of conformity. Who wants to live in a boring world where the only flavour is vanilla?

 

[CXRAndy]

It's not how natural conversation begins.

Hello, how are you etc. Maybe hi my name is.

Not, what do do you go by. Sounds false, is false.

Comes down to, if you're a man or woman, howI would base my introduction.

If I was unsure, not so difficult generally, I would go with best guess.

I would never go about asking pronouns as an introduction

If someone insisted that I do that, they would be told to do one

 

[AndyRM]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNPnbI1arSE


Censored, for y'all snowflakes.

 

[monkers]

Maybe we should stop wasting time shaking hands when we meet others, but start displaying our genitals instead, or sniff them like farm animals? We could then end all this wokery about public loos being private spaces. What do you say CXRandy? Is that full-blooded enough for you?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Why? If one person wants to be different - isn't that OK? Why do we all have to change what we do? If someone arrives at work and is in a wheelchair, we make sure the workplace is accessible. We don't all start using Wheelchairs to show solidarity.

So if there is a place to show it on the badge and someone wants to show it- let them. But don't make a point of insisting that everyone puts their pronouns on their badge when for 99% (or even 100%) it's completely pointless.

As I said, the intention is to make it normal to let people know your preferred pronoun. In my place most are he/him or she/her but some prefer a neutral they/them. It's not difficult and, as of now, nobody has to.

The wheelchair thing is is an elephants/bananas comparison (i.e. pretending different things are the same) and if were not it would be classic whataboutery

 

[icowden]

As I said, the intention is to make it normal to let people know your preferred pronoun. In my place most are he/him or she/her but some prefer a neutral they/them. It's not difficult and, as of now, nobody has to.

But the question is, why do we need to make that normal when it applies to a very very very tiny percentage of people. We have got by with him and her for quite a long time.

 

[monkers]

But the question is, why do we need to make that normal when it applies to a very very very tiny percentage of people. We have got by with him and her for quite a long time.

Because it's not abnormal not to be the same as you.

 

[icowden]

Because it's not abnormal not to be the same as you.

I didn't say it was. I said it was abnormal to pretend to be the same as you by making 2000 people change something that only affects 1 person and which they could easily show without the other 2000 people having to agree to do the same thing.
(figures are arbitrary).

If difference is good then why so much emphasis on fitting in and being the same?

 

[monkers]

I didn't say it was. I said it was abnormal to pretend to be the same as you by making 2000 people change something that only affects 1 person and which they could easily show without the other 2000 people having to agree to do the same thing.
(figures are arbitrary).

If difference is good then why so much emphasis on fitting in and being the same?

There's a fatal flaw in your argument.