Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

I'm not assuming they are a predator.

The main benefit is the validation of their self identifying as being a woman. They can, and do, swim in Masters events with people their own age so why they choose to additionally swim with teenage girls will always be open to speculation. Better chance of winning perhaps, though they've had success in the Masters class already, so that doesn't seem to be it. We can only wonder.

 

[AndyRM]

I'm not assuming they are a predator.

The main benefit is the validation of their self identifying as being a woman. They can, and do, swim in Masters events with people their own age so why they choose to additionally swim with teenage girls will always be open to speculation. Better chance of winning perhaps, though they've had success in the Masters class already, so that doesn't seem to be it. We can only wonder.

I didn't say you were. But you did say that it's for her "pleasure and benefit", which reads a lot like you're assuming the worst.

Peterson and Linehan clearly have, which for an academic and an activist is kind of weird. You'd think they'd have something more constructive to say, but apparently not.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think it's naive to assume a 50 year old male born adult is actively choosing to swim, and therefore get changed, with girls aged 13 to early 20's for altruistic reasons, which is what you seem to be doing. And I can't think of any reason why they would do it that isn't dodgy, given that they can freely swim with adult women in comps or recreationally already.

Still, it's highlighting the issues with self ID, though it's at the expense of the discomfort of girls and young women.

 

[AndyRM]

I'm not disputing that. As I've said, I think it's weird and a very odd approach to take if the motivation is to highlight the rules around transgender people in sport. It seems counter intuitive and only gives fuel to those who are anti trans rights.

Most articles seem intent on misgendering and deadnaming which is bad enough, but the insinuation that Melody is a paedophile seems to be entirely baseless.

 

[icowden]

Most articles seem intent on misgendering and deadnaming which is bad enough, but the insinuation that Melody is a paedophile seems to be entirely baseless.

Absolutely. You'll also recall that the Press made a lot of oblique accusations about a chap called Michael Jackson who also liked to hang out with young boys and girls.

 

[AndyRM]

I don't believe anyone is making any accusations about Melody, just insinuations.

 

[multitool]

A little surprised that nobody has mentioned the judge's summation in the Brianna Ghey trial, which specifically states that transphobia was a significant factor in this murder.

A little more thought needed from all those who have contributed to creating the environment that led to this hateful crime.

https://x.com/Trans_Writes/status/1753441459770982752?s=20

 

[icowden]

A little surprised that nobody has mentioned the judge's summation in the Brianna Ghey trial, which specifically states that transphobia was a significant factor in this murder.

Presumably because it was only one of a number of significant factors rather than a primary factor.

What commentary were you expecting?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

A little surprised that nobody has mentioned the judge's summation in the Brianna Ghey trial, which specifically states that transphobia was a significant factor in this murder.

A little more thought needed from all those who have contributed to creating the environment that led to this hateful crime.

https://x.com/Trans_Writes/status/1753441459770982752?s=20

Except for the fact that it isn't true, the girl was leading and the one with the obsession with murderers. The guy had something against transpersons, if you read the tldr of all the reports then it becomes clear they guy wouldn't have started killing on it's accoord he needed the girl to develop and push him over the edge. Her ''kill-list'' wasn't loaded with transgenders either so your dragging something in by the balls.. and then starting moralizing about the environment whilst the more shocking thing is that both of these individuals where on a school the signs where so clear that all there classmates where creeped out by them and still no action was taken before the poor girl was stabbed 28 times.

 

[Deleted member 121]

Except for the fact that it isn't true, the girl was leading and the one with the obsession with murderers. The guy had something against transpersons, if you read the tldr of all the reports then it becomes clear they guy wouldn't have started killing on it's accoord he needed the girl to develop and push him over the edge. Her ''kill-list'' wasn't loaded with transgenders either so your dragging something in by the balls.. and then starting moralizing about the environment whilst the more shocking thing is that both of these individuals where on a school the signs where so clear that all there classmates where creeped out by them and still no action was taken before the poor girl was stabbed 28 times.

It's funny you mentioning balls when you are clearly peering into a Crystal one...

The judge said that "while Jenkinson was the driving force. It would be wholly wrong to treat Ratcliffe as being under Scarlett's control"

I deem that to mean that he had a choice. Was under no spell and could have even defused and prevented the situation. I would then surmise that his hate towards transgender people is actually what pushed him over the edge...

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It's funny you mentioning balls when you are clearly peering into a Crystal one...

The judge said that "while Jenkinson was the driving force. It would be wholly wrong to treat Ratcliffe as being under Scarlett's control"

I deem that to mean that he had a choice. Was under no spell and could have even defused and prevented the situation. I would then surmise that his hate towards transgender people is actually what pushed him over the edge...

I Don't say he or she for that matter didn't have a choice they both had they they both made the choice to kill seemingly for the fun of it. Nothing to do with an crystal ball it litterly in the report, in the slightly more extended version of the one you are quoting. But still based on the findings and publised today, they had decided to kill and Ghey was their first victim, yes probably that Scarlet choice Ghey because she was trans and knew Ratcliffe had something against transpersons, but that doesn't change the fact that she was more obsessed with serial killers and being one than trans hate, she was just using it ti rally-up that Ratcliffe.(what the court also said they ruled her also part of the hate crime because she didn't say ''stop planning to murder is great, but trans hate that's not done'' but for all the things wrong with her transhate on itself wasn't one of them)

 

[AuroraSaab]

I deem that to mean that he had a choice. Was under no spell and could have even defused and prevented the situation. I would then surmise that his hate towards transgender people is actually what pushed him over the edge...

The hours and hours of videos of torture porn the pair are alleged to have watched might have contributed. Hopefully the judge's sentencing comments will be issued in full so we can read them for ourselves rather than versions via commentators.

 

[Deleted member 121]

The hours and hours of videos of torture porn the pair are alleged to have watched might have contributed. Hopefully the judge's sentencing comments will be issued in full so we can read them for ourselves rather than versions via commentators.

Potentially. And i certainly am not attempting to play down that type of "content" and its impacts, but doesn't that play in a similar light to violent film, TV and gaming where brutal death is sometimes even glorified? And where millions choose not to terminate the life of another and watch/participate in it and understand that fact?

Genuinely mixed on that, but at their ages (and younger), they shouldn't be anywhere near that type of crap. There will undoubtedly be people working in the relevant fields who will chime in with there theories in due course.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think it's different in that this is hard core stuff like actual beatings and torturing, proper non consensual real life violent sexual abuse as opposed to faked/acting, women and girls often obviously but men/boys and of course younger children too. It's very corrosive. Their choice to act on it obviously.

You have to wonder what makes two teenagers go beyond the bullying that happens all the time - verbal abuse, intimidation, some physical violence, social media bullying and so on - to the stage where they produce a hit list of peers and plan their murders in some detail. More details of their backgrounds and contributing factors will come out in the coming weeks I expect.

 

[multitool]

"It’s time to recognise that so many vocal opponents of trans people know no such restraint; they are not afraid of melodrama, they are untroubled by incomplete information, they don’t care if they sound obsessional or disproportionate. No issue is too niche, or too distant, or too petty, or too illogical, for their fury. A child having to use a toilet cubicle previously occupied by a trans woman is apparently the right-thinking parent’s most pressing fear. A teacher who refuses to use a pupil’s chosen pronouns is the Achilles of the culture wars. Mediocre politicians get the attention they crave by making puerile remarks about trans people’s genitalia. Where does it end? Do all the trans people of the UK have to detransition? Or would it be enough if they just went into hiding?"

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ansphobia-children?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other